From Telecom to Fintech Bentzi Aviv on Personalization and the Future of Banking

Episode Overview

Bentzi Aviv, the Global Head of FinTech Solutions at Amdocs, is a seasoned expert in digital transformation and financial services with over 20 years of experience. His career at Amdocs began in 2004 when he was recruited as a software engineer. Over the years, he has climbed the ranks, transitioning from telecommunications to financial services, and now leads Amdocs’ fintech division. Bentzi’s comprehensive understanding of various sectors, including media, consultancy, and telecommunications, has been instrumental in his rise to his current leadership position​ (Home of FinTech & Banking News)​​ (fintechfutures)​.

Bentzi is a passionate advocate for the integration of innovative technologies in the financial sector. He emphasizes the importance of personalization in banking, advocating for a multi-layered approach that caters to individual needs, household dynamics, and community affiliations. His vision extends beyond individual-level segmentation, recognizing that customers have different personas and expectations in various contexts. 

Episode Transcript

 Kevin Rosenquist: It is. You mentioned having to make sacrifices. I mean, how do you balance, you know, how do you have that work life balance? It’s talked about a lot these days. And as far as mental health and as far as happiness and things like that, how have you found the best way to balance? Hey, welcome to Pay Pod, where we bring you conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of payments and fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thanks for listening. Bentzi Aviv has been with Amdocs for over 20 years. His work ethic and passion has helped continuously advance his career, and he now holds the title of Global Head of Fintech Solutions. He has amazing perspective on technology, work life balance, and how a more personalized approach to banking must be the future. Joining me now, Bentzi Aviv.

 Bentzi Aviv: What , in, , it’s been 20 years. Since, oh, 20 years.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Oh, gosh. Okay, then I even didn’t even up to.

 Bentzi Aviv: Date, but.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Wow. Even longer.

 Bentzi Aviv: Who’s counting? Right, right.

 Kevin Rosenquist: How did your how did this journey unfold?

 Bentzi Aviv:  I was actually recruited as a software engineer back in 2004. I was on the telecom telecommunication business at the beginning. So,  about nine years of my career. And the company was in the, in the telecommunication business. And then about 11 years ago, I switched to financial services. I actually chose to do so. it’s the reason why I’m still around with Linux because, , Amdocs is a global company and Amdocs has, , a wide variety of, , I would say areas of focus or areas of involvement. , obviously, you know, about the telecommunication, you know about banking, but there’s also media. There’s also,  , consultancy.  there’s all sorts of different activities that companies involved into. And my I was fortunate enough to, to grow my career based on the wishes I had. So it was never about what the company wanted. And I’m actually being maybe too blunt about it. It was about what I wanted to do and the things that made me,  excited. Excited about my work. And I was fortunate enough to make the right choices over the course of the last 20 years. So I started as a software software engineer, and then I became a team lead, if you can call it that, and then a project manager.

 Bentzi Aviv: So actually I went through every, every, every level at the ladder, basically.  which is about this aside. And during my career, I was fortunate enough to start from the engineering side. So software engineering but I grew beyond I grew into different areas of , of , I would say involvement. So I also did sales activities. I did product production support activities. I was, , on sites working, supporting closely with, , supporting our customers in Finland, in the US, in, in Hungary, , in the Netherlands, of course. And that actually gave me a wide range of, , I would say, , and capabilities of the possibility to sharpen my skills in different areas of capabilities. So while I started as a software engineer, I was fortunate enough to do all sorts of different types of assignments. And because of that, I think that I’m more equipped nowadays to to represent the company in the best way possible, while interacting with our existing and potential customers.  so long answer to a short question. , it wasn’t a short question. No, I.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Think that’s that’s great. I mean, because you bring up an interesting point, and that is like having so, so much experience at different parts of a company allows you to see the company from, from different angles and, and adds value. You add value in that way.

 Bentzi Aviv: Yeah. And I think that this is the expectation of our customer nowadays. So if in the past salesperson used to be, you know, people that grow within the sales function of the company, so they start from a junior role and they grow into a senior role, and then they grow into the director role. And beyond that,  the expectation of our customers nowadays is to speak to people who are content driven. You know, when you go in history, you stand in front of a customer and you try to pitch a specific type of a solution, a specific type of type of a capability. They would like to speak to people who actually implemented the solution but understand how it’s implemented. What are the advantages and disadvantages of the solution that you’re offering? And I think the capability to be the capability to, to, to have that kind of a discussion with customers and partners is extremely important nowadays. I think that as,  that’s the, that’s the, that’s the expectation of our customers. So it’s no longer, you know, just a shiny presentation and bells and whistles and waving your hands and saying, promising that, , the sky is blue and everything would be perfect. Just sign this piece of paper here. It’s much beyond that. You know, they want to see that, , you understand technology.

 Bentzi Aviv: They want to see that you understand the challenges that you face, the challenges. And you can be open minded and you can be open about it. And I think that that leverage that, that brings, , that creates a different type of a discussion altogether. And that’s something that I encourage with my colleagues, , you know, well know while doing our work because I do have my colleagues, , being sales directors and, , and customers be customer business executives. It’s the understanding that it has to be content driven. You need to study the material. You need to understand the technology. Everybody can say cloud native, but what does it really mean? What is the value that it brings to the customer? And everybody speaks about AI. But again, what does it mean? What does it actually bring to the customer? What are the challenges of implementing AI? So I think that my my career in the company and this is, I believe, one of the reasons I became the global head for fintech was the fact that expectation is such that you need to hold a discussion in a professional manner, and you need to be be able to answer the tough questions related to the type of solutions that we are providing. And again, the disadvantages and the advantages.

 Kevin Rosenquist: When you started out as a software engineer, did you ever see yourself go rising to, you know, such a high position? I mean, or did you always just kind of imagine you’d be sitting behind a computer?

 Bentzi Aviv: I think everything I did for my entire career and company, I did the best way possible means I really put everything I had into it, and sometimes it came at a cost of spending less time with my family. It came with a price of leaving my homeland and moving to other countries and actually dedicating, dedicating the majority of my time to my work. And I think that the outcome of doing your best is always, , success in my mind. Like if you really, literally fully committed into something and you invest years mastering it, then,  the progression is a is a very natural aspect of it. So I never had to fight for a position. I never had to insist to get a position. I think that by doing a really good job, insisting to go the extra mile, always going the extra mile, it made the difference. So whenever I was in, in in discussions with my managers in regards to when my next career move within the company, it was always about it was very natural to speak about the next career move because I always, you know, came from a point that I proved myself, and that’s why I encourage my colleagues to do and I do mentoring quite a lot of mentoring in the company now.

 Bentzi Aviv: And what I tell people is you can’t plan to be a manager. You need to earn it. You need to actually go through the different aspects of the professional and professional work that you’re doing. You need to be extremely good at it. You need to prove that you bring significant value to the company, and a promotion and growth is an outcome of it. So in my mind, it was never the target. So I wasn’t sitting, you know, 20 years ago behind the desk and dreaming about being a global head of fintech solutions at Amdocs. I never predicted I never thought, what about that? I was actually very, very much focused on what I’m doing and doing it the best way I can of bringing value to my customers and bringing value to my to, to, to, to Amdocs as an organization. And I said the growth, the career growth is an outcome of it. It’s not in my mind. Maybe I’m a little bit too naive about it, but it was it was not the target. It is.

 Kevin Rosenquist: You mentioned having to make sacrifices. I mean, how do you balance, you know, how do you have that work life balance? It’s talked about a lot these days. And, and as far as mental health and as far as happiness and things like that, how how have you found the best way to balance, first.

 Bentzi Aviv: Of all, is to, to to have the right partner in life. Yeah. And that is significant as a significant aspect of it, I think. And I’m very fortunate to have a partner in my life that understands and actually supports me and, and, and help me, you know, achieve the things that I wanted to achieve from a professional man from a professional perspective. So I think that that’s a fundamental aspect of being able to balance your life and work. It’s having a partner that is there to support you, that is there to, you know, to take care of things when, when you’re not available. And I said, I’m very fortunate to have a partner like that, but I have one more trick and some maybe. Sounds simple, but I ride motorcycles and the moment I put the helmet on my head and I tend to do that quite often in between. So whenever I have the free hour,  the fact that I can put the helmet on my head, sit on my motorcycle and get disconnected from the world helps me kind of recharge. I would say it sounds a little bit contradicting because you say no riding motorcycle. It’s a very aggressive type of, , sure.  , but not in my mind. So the two things that I were always there to, to kind of assist me balancing things was where my wife, my partner, and also the fact that I had a hobby that allowed me to kind of disconnect and recharge.  so whenever it was too difficult, whatever it was. And sometimes it’s really difficult. Sometimes you spend hours in the office and days and weeks and you miss a lot of activities with your family. But then again, I’m very passionate about what I do, and I have my partner and I have my hobbies to kind of balance me out and help me kind of recharge when I need to do so.

 Kevin Rosenquist: We’ll make sure and send a copy of this podcast to your wife. That way you can get some good notes there. Yeah.

 Bentzi Aviv: Oh, maybe you shouldn’t.

 Kevin Rosenquist: No, I know what you mean about disconnecting, though. For me, it’s like I like to. I live by the mountains, so I like to get up to the mountains and, you know, don’t really get reception up there and stuff. And to your point, you can’t. It’s not like you can just pick up and start look at your emails while you’re riding a motorcycle. So it’s so rare that we get a chance to disconnect these days. That’s great that you’re able to find a way to do that.

 Bentzi Aviv: And I think it’s the quality of the time rather than the, you know, the amount of the time. It’s how can you use your time in a way that really recharges you? Can you really disconnect and you put the phone away and not answering the phone, not looking at your emails, can you really disconnect? And I think that if you are capable of doing that, then it helps you recharge. And when I spend the time with my family because I travel a lot, often as a global head of fintech, I travel a lot. But when I get back home from me, the time that I spend with my family is crucial. So it’s not about spending more days. It’s about the fact that when I get there, when I’m there, I’m all I’m all there at the level that nothing else matters. So while we have less and less time, I think that we need to master the capability to, to, to to enjoy the, the, the quality of it. Because we tend to say that we are with our family. Right. You go home, but you sit with your family and you own your phone, and you answer the phone and you answer emails and you get answer your WhatsApp, WhatsApp, and you’re spending two days doing that. But I, I use I use I you really there. You know, the sad truth is that you’re not you’re physically there, but your mind is not. So to be able to balance it the way I structure it. And again, I’m not doing it perfectly. But that’s what works for me. That when I’m there, I’d rather be half a day with my family all committed without touching my phone, than being there for two days and being on and off between calls and and on the Amdocs.

 Kevin Rosenquist: So obviously started with the telco industry. Why did you guys begin working with financial institutions and how do you work with financial institutions?

 Bentzi Aviv: Funny stories that we were invited into the industry by a bank 20 years ago. Wow.

 Kevin Rosenquist: I’m sorry. How many? Three years ago?

 Bentzi Aviv: 20 years ago.

 Kevin Rosenquist: 20. I think you said three. I was like, whoa, no no no no, no. Was back.

 Bentzi Aviv: In 2000. It’s actually 21 years ago. It started in 2003. What happened was that Abn-amro, which is still one of our major customers, they were looking they wanted to revolutionize the way that they service customers. They wanted they started thinking about personalization, about bundling, and they actually went and checked and came to know that telecommunication business is quite advanced when it comes to personalizing, you know, already 20 years ago. So they invited us to participate in another speech that they initiated for charging, billing and personalizing or bundling services to the to their customers. We want that RSP 20 years ago, 21 years ago, and since then, of course, we grew the business, but we were actually invited into the industry by a bank and since then we now have more than 50 active customers. Of course, some came through acquisitions we made and some are wins that we gathered and, and over the, over the, over the course of time. But to emphasize that for us banking is a very, very natural industry to grow into. You know, I tend to say that many of the things that we have done successfully in telecommunication business are now becoming more and more relevant in banking, and I think that Abn-amro were ahead of the game 20 years ago. So I think it took time until the their vision and their, their, the way that they look at things became true. But just to give you a couple of examples, if you look at,  the largest, I would say transformations that actually happen in the telecommunication business were actually were two, there were many, but the, the major ones were. The first one was number portability. It was the appointed time in which the regulator forces telecommunication service providers to allow customers to to port out between subtable between networks, while keeping their phone numbers.

 Bentzi Aviv: This was a very, very strong stickiness mechanism People didn’t want them to leave companies because they didn’t want wanted to lose their number. So the regulator came in and told the service providers that you must allow it. And this is the number portability. So that was a big game changer. The second thing that happened was the introduction on of MVNOs. It’s a virtual network operator. It was a point in time in which the regulator figured out in the telecommunication that the competition is not aggressive enough because the network itself is owned by the network providers. So they force the network providers to open the network or virtual players. So you can actually sit on a network operator and infrastructure and compete against the operator. And you also have the number portability. Now, this happened many years ago. And of course there’s also the introduction of the iPhones. But these are things that happen before and similar things happen in financial services. You know, the first thing is the introduction of open banking APIs. It’s the point in time in which the regulator told tall banks that you have to open your own infrastructure to your competitors, the same as MVNOs. So it’s a very similar type of approach. The second thing was number portability. You know, one of the main reasons why people don’t leave their bank account banks is because it’s the complexity of updating everything that is linked to your bank account, right? Your insurance, your salary, everything is linked to your bank account. So it’s huge.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Pain in the butt to have to switch.

 Bentzi Aviv: Yeah. But like yeah, but what regulators are doing now with the introduction of I-bonds, they are preparing the ground for a point in time in which you could migrate, or you could move between banks while keeping your bank account number. Wow. So things that we have dealt with many years ago in telecommunication business and we are considered to be market leaders when it comes to servicing the telecommunication service providers. These are the transformations that will also happen in banking. Now of course there’s a lot of differences between the industries. But if you look at personalization, if you look at, , bundling capabilities, if you look at number portability, if you look at open banking APIs, which are the big, big changes, if you can call it that, these are things that we dealt with. These are things that we have been extremely successful in helping our partners, the likes of AT&T, the likes of T-Mobile, the likes of Vodafone in reshaping their future and helping them protect their position in the market. And because we’ve done that successfully and we built solutions and capabilities in our entire infrastructure and product portfolio is built to to kind of support our customers achieving that. And this specific type of targets where I think that we are absolutely well prepared to assist the financial service institutes as well. And I think that we make a difference.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Now that’s funny. I, I kind of forgot that you had if you switched carriers and your cell phone at the beginning, at the early days, you had to get a new number. I totally forgot about that. That’s what a pain you have. And back then you had to call everyone and tell them you had a new number.

 Bentzi Aviv: And that was a stickiness mechanism. It actually prevented competition because people, even though you were not happy with the telecommunication service provider, you wouldn’t consider moving because you were afraid of losing your number. Absolutely. The moment that regulators saw that this was a blocker for competition, they enforced it on the industry and told them enough is enough. Customers would be able to migrate while keeping their numbers. And surprisingly, it works. You can migrate.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Between.

 Bentzi Aviv: Network or network operators while keeping your number. So the same type of because these were actually blockers for competition really competition between service providers. And I think that banks as a whole, you know, if we talk about universal banks, right. They are built to compete against others, universal banks. And I think what the regulators are trying to do, it started in Europe and is now expanding is to enforce competition, but real competition in this industry. And when you start competing, you know, making a difference to the end customer is how you defend. How do you defend your position is how do you prevent churn is by personalizing the experience. It’s no longer enough to have just a service. It has to be a personalized service because people have possibilities. Now that you can switch between network operators while keeping your number, it means that you can make a choice. It means that the product offering that is suggested to you, the pricing that is suggested to you has to be personalized because you have options you can move in between. Now, it’s not something that will happen overnight in the financial financial industry. Of course, don’t expect it to happen overnight, but these are the sorts of large scale transformations and large scale and revolutions that will take place in the near future, in the near future. And I think that the fact that we have all the years of experience being able to deal with that and helping our partners to, , protect their position in the market, if you can call it that, by improving the customer experience makes a difference.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that would be a that would be a big deal to be able to switch banks and keep your number. I mean, heck, I still have my same phone number from when I lived in Chicago ten years ago and I’m in Colorado now. So like, there’s no reason why switch. Who cares? Like, you know, it doesn’t really matter. You know, no one knows each other’s numbers anyway. It’s just you just go to their name and your phone and that’s it. So that makes a lot of sense.

 Bentzi Aviv: Yeah, but it’s a revolution. Is a revolution. That takes time, right? Yeah.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Of course. Yeah. That’s that would be wild in the banking industry.  So what challenges are financial institutions facing and how is Amdocs serving as a solution?

 Bentzi Aviv: I think there’s an understanding that personalization makes a difference. You know, they do prepare themselves for the upcoming competition. They see the likes of Revolut’s, Klarna, they see the likes of this digital first or digital fintechs that are coming to their, , to the industry and changing the way that they interact with customers. So they do understand that the change is an absolute must, right? It’s not something that they can kind of wait for and see how it evolves. They need to be prepared. They need to be prepared for it. The thing is that for universal banks, you know, the likes, the big ones, the ones that have been in existence for more than 50 years, they are siloed, means they are extremely good in selling mortgages. They are extremely good in selling deposits. They are extremely good in selling loans. But the moment you ask them to combine these products, what we call bundling the products and offering them in a personalized manner, because as an individual, you’re not just looking for a mortgage, you’re not just looking for a loan. You have a full financial and financial requirements and , type of, , expectation from banks, right? It’s your payments. It’s your deposit. It’s your you might be having savings for your kids, mortgage loans, insurances and so forth.

 Bentzi Aviv: And the fact that banks cannot personalize the experience comes from the reality of having different silos, having different. If you look at the typical bank, you’ll see that every line of business is supported by different technology. You might actually have a mortgage system that was built in the 70s, running on cobalt and running on a mainstream with the, you know, written in COBOL. And you can have a very sophisticated deposit systems that are cloud native, running on a cloud environment and anything in between. So when the biggest challenge, the way we see it is to how do you take an environment in which you have different silos, literally different stacks, different different technology stacks to support different line of businesses. And how do you use that landscape to personalize the experience? How do you look at a person like Kevin, when you can kind of look at the needs that you have and you combine products together, rather than just being extremely good in selling mortgages, how can I combine mortgage with insurance? And how can I combine a mortgage with a deposit account? So that’s the main challenge as we see it now. And I think that banks are doing extremely investing a lot into modernizing their capabilities. They’re trying to isolate the problems some of them would invest into, into, into, into modernizing their deposit systems, into modernizing their lending systems.

 Bentzi Aviv: Some of them would do partnerships. But the sad that that the simple reality is that no one has completed the journey successfully yet. So if you look at a typical bank, you know she opened the hood looking into the engine. It’s not one engine you will actually see as many engines as line of businesses. So there would be an engine from the 60s alongside an engine from, from, from, from 21st century from now. So 60 plus century and then an engine from, from five years ago, cloud native running in Java and anything in between. So how can you actually operate in that kind of an environment. And I think that it is hard. But then again, it’s the biggest advantage of universal banks. You know, the irony of the matter is that this is their biggest challenge, but it’s also their biggest advantage because as a universal bank, what we convince them or what we try to convince them to become is trusted advisors. We say it’s no longer that perception of or the situation of how do I sell a mortgage? It’s actually the understanding of what Kevin is looking for and tailor making the offering to fit your wishes and needs.

 Bentzi Aviv: You know, we tend to say that if you’re wealthy enough, the bank will build any product for you. The bank will not give you a set of products to choose from. They would actually build what we call the family offices or private banking experience, such that the bank would build different products to, to, to, to fit your, to fit your wishes and needs. So the type of experience that you get in the private private banking sector,  is completely different than the type of experience you get in the retail side. And we say that universal banks have the means and the capability to give you a personalized experience, which is completely different than their fintech competitors. Because a fintech will always focus on a specific line of business. They would do deposits extremely well, they would do investments extremely well, they would do trading, and Robinhood does trading extremely well, but they will not offer mortgage on universal banks are capable of looking at the entire portfolio of capabilities and creating a personalized experience to us individuals in the retail segment. Now, the barrier in the past was manpower, because the way that they solved it on the retail, on the private banking side is by investing, by having business managers and family offices. So literally having experts working, servicing the individual, looking at his portfolio, looking at his financial needs and fulfilling the needs.

 Bentzi Aviv: We believe that with the right technology and especially with AI, you can, you can create that kind of experience in retail, in the retail segment. And the only way to do it is by being a universal bank. It’s actually being able to create a portfolio of capabilities that will service you and me as retail customers better. So how do I combine a mortgage together with an insurance together with a deposit account? And how do I make it so that it reflects your wishes and needs? Now, obviously, everything needs to be in the boundaries of the regulatory and regulatory requirements. And it’s okay. We have built so that we were people specializing in defining very clearly the boundaries in which we need to operate. But even within the boundaries, you can create a personalized experience. And I think that that’s where we aim to be. And I think this is, , this is what I said. This is the biggest advantage of banks, but also their biggest disadvantage, that they have so many products to deal with that it makes it difficult. But then again, it’s actually the way to service customers. It’s the way to personalize the experience to end customers. I hope it makes sense.

 Kevin Rosenquist: It does. Yeah, absolutely. And you mentioned AI is does AI kind of force financial institutions to change and think about the future? Is it like in a do they have an adapt or die kind of mentality when it comes to AI?

 Bentzi Aviv: I think we first need to understand that AI is not just about servicing customers. I think that AI, the promise or the big promise of AI is that it’s supposed to make everything smarter. It’s the way you manage your manpower. It’s the way that you manage your assets. It’s the way that you manage your risk. It’s the way that you manage your portfolio. To make that you manage pretty much everything. So the message that we convey to our partners is it’s not just built for the purpose of improving customer experiences. Of course it does that. It has the ability. And I think that it’s actually the fastest, best way to achieve that. But what we tell our customers is that you need to look at AI as the means to make everything smarter. So even your own decisions on manpower, location, even the decision if to open a close a branch should be AI driven because there’s so much, so much information to scan, so much information to, to evaluate before you can make such a decision that only a machine can do that when it comes, you know, when when it comes to really analyzing the information available. So what we tell our partners is that you need to look at AI as the fundamental aspect of everything you do. You need to embed it into everything you do. It needs to be in the code.

 Bentzi Aviv: In every piece of code we write, it has to be an AI capability embedded into that to to, to make everything faster and smarter. So in my mind, it’s not about adapting or you ask if they need to adapt or die. It’s the baseline. Well, I think we we and I know that there’s, there’s, there are people against and people in favor of and I’m not even referring to Gen AI for now. I’m just talking about AI in principle and in my mind, the way that we design, the way that we build solutions, that AI needs to be embedded into everything. But it’s not AI as a standalone, it’s AI in the context of, , customer management, in product lifecycle management into risk management, into. So how do you embed AI into your decision making processes? How do you empower these decision making processes in a copiloting type of an approach? So it will never, at least in the near future, it will not be a stand alone type of capability. It will always be, at least the way I see it. Copilot in a copilot mode, with experts, with bankers, with risk managers, with compliance officers, and so forth that will use AI. But the fundamental aspect of it is that it needs to be it will be embedded in everything. Every everything bank would, would eventually do. That’s the big promise. So yeah.

 Kevin Rosenquist: That’s because I think when I first kind of blew up, you know, with ChatGPT and all that, I mean, all I heard was how many jobs were going to be lost and all that it was going to replace, replace, replace. And since then we’ve sort of realized, well, certain things sure will be replaced. But for the, the vast majority will just it’ll be a tool and it’ll be an asset to the people who are using it rather than a replacement.

 Bentzi Aviv: Yeah, I think that we can get much better by using it. I think that when it comes to, you know, one of the big promises of it is,  help banks and bankers become trusted advisors. You know, eventually, if you look at it, in the past, banks used to at least some of them call themselves fintechs with banking licenses. I didn’t like that when it kind of popped up because for me, a bank must be a trusted advisor. And if you look at it my entire life, your life? Most of the majority of pretty much everyone would have interaction with banks from, even before we know about it because our parents would most likely open a savings account for us until the moment we die and we pass on something to our kids. So banks would be part of our life and are, is and will and will always be part of our life on a day to day, on a day to day basis. But I think that we lost something along the, along the way. And I think that I would like to see banks evolving into being a trusted advisor. It’s the understanding that eventually financial well-being or the individual is an important aspect of a successful society, of a successful country. And that’s something that I wish.

 Bentzi Aviv: I’m talking from a personal perspective here. Being a trusted advisor of an individual changes the entire the entire baseline of the relationship between a banker and an individual. Let me give an example of that. You know, we are all focused on how do we give how do we provide a loan in context? What does it mean? I would I would like to offer the loan when the customer actually needs it. But we tend to forget that sometimes. The other side of the coin is if a customer wants or needs a loan, maybe the right thing to do is to offer them a deposit account. You know, if they want to. Let’s say a teenager wants to buy a car. If you are a trusted advisor, you will do the calculations through using AI. And you tell the customer, you know what? If you’re gonna if you’ll save money for the next 4 to 5 months, if you save 300 bucks or 200 bucks for the next 3 to 4 months, you will have enough money to do the to to to put the down payment. And if you put the down payment at the value of 10% of what you’re trying to loan, then your auto loan cost would be significantly lower. So as a trusted advisor of yours, I would say as a banker, I would say, you want a loan? Yes.

 Bentzi Aviv: It’s great. I can give you a loan. Here are the terms and conditions of it. And this is the best loan that fits you. But as a trusted advisor, honestly, I actually think that you should open a deposit account because we will pay you 2% on the deposit account for the next six months. You would save 400 bucks a month. Sorry. Lights. You will save 400 bucks a month. In the next six months, you’ll get to a specific level of of, , down payment that will change the interest rate that you depend on, your pay on your loan. It’s a trusted advisor type of an environment in which, as a financial institute, I look at your well-being. Telling you the right thing to do is actually to open a deposit account and wait for 4 or 5 months until you get to a certain amount that you need as a down payment, and then your overall loan cost would be significantly lower. So if you can wait that kind of time, that period of time and you can actually open a deposit account, then you will then you will save x amount of money. So that’s the type of I would say personalized experience that I would like to see. It’s not.

 Bentzi Aviv: Obviously we can use AI to analyze what is the best loan for you at the time of interaction. I think most banks can do that already. But how do you take your, your, your knowledge and and relationship with the individual and translate that into a trusted advisor type of relationship. The example of deposit is just one of many, but it changes the way that I think banks should interact with individuals. And that’s what we tell to our potential customers. We say eventually you need to build relationships. It’s not a one type type of an activity. You need to be there when, when, when life changes, when they get married, when they have kids, you know, their expectations and wishes are changing. You need to be there when they buy the first house and they buy, sell and buy the second house. And how do you evolve beyond that? And I think that as a company, our solutions are designed to reflect that, to actually give our customer, the customers, the capability to to create this type of relationship, this trusted advisor type of relationship, rather than how do I sell mortgage the best way possible? How do I sell a loan the best way possible? Which we can do, but it’s again, it’s siloed. I hope it makes sense. It does.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah I just I, I started thinking about how for the longest time I had my car insurance was like progressive or Geico or whatever online, whatever’s the cheapest. And now I have it through a guy. I got a guy, you know, like, I can go sit down and I see. I see my guy every like once a year we meet up, we go over my homeowner policy and all that stuff. And there is something about that trusted advisor thing that is just it’s piece of mind. It’s a little more of having an advocate in your corner for you. And, , so, yeah, I’m on your side. I totally agree with you. I think that I think it’s important that people.

 Bentzi Aviv: People are willing to pay a little bit more. I am trusted, so when they get value out of it a little bit more, of course it can be, I’ll be honest, but a little bit more for value added service. And this is what we aim to do, is how do you create this value added services that makes a difference to the customer. Mhm.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah I mean it’s the same thing I don’t I have a tax person, I have a financial advisor. I don’t want to do that stuff on my own. I’d rather pay someone who knows what they’re doing to do it for me. So that way I have an advocate in my corner and it makes a big difference. Makes a big difference. When you talk about that sort of approach to clients, is there is there a potential client? Is there resistance? Do they are they pretty open to it or are they already doing it, or how does that go for you? Usually I think.

 Bentzi Aviv: Everybody understands the concept of personalization. So it’s not something that we need to advocate. And it’s something that took some time to get to. But pretty much everyone we speak to understand the importance of personalization. But when we take it to the next level, and I’ll use the research that we’ve done on financial households and multigenerational type of households, and we say we tell our customers, you know, we tend to think that personalization is just individual. But then again, you as an individual, you can actually have different personas.  in you can be an individual looking for specific financial requirements yourself, but you can also be a member of the financial household. And what is your role in the financial household? Are you the grandfather, the father, the kid? And you have different wishes and different needs. And there’s also your persona in the community that you are a part of. Are you donating to the community? Well, how what kind of financial requirements you will have as, as the person within the community that you are part of. So when we increase, when we take it to the next level, we tell our customers, you know, you need to build your capabilities because technology is there. It’s how do you build the kit, the technology to reflect the fact that things changes and they will keep on changing. So it’s no longer how do I sell you a loan or a mortgage is again, how do I reflect the relationship I have with you to create a spouse, a trusted advisor type of relationship? And then how do I take that? And I translate it into the type of relationship you would like to have as a fine in the financial household set up and in a community setup and beyond that.

 Bentzi Aviv: And that’s something that is a little bit newer. This is something that we we keep on pitching. We’ve done that last week in 2020 in Amsterdam, and we’ve done that in Bangkok in in April 2020, in April. And we continue doing it with our customers. So I think that what we bring is the understanding of the expansion of it. So it’s not just a position in the level of the individual, which I think we’re doing well in. The industry understands quite well, and there’s a lot of investment made into translating that into the into the into the technical technology capabilities. Like how do you bundle services, how do you combine a mortgage and an insurance? I think many companies are already doing that. It’s more about understanding that this is the beginning of because if you go to personalization and you do it right, the same technology can be utilized to, to, to to reflect same capability in a financial household and then in the a community. And what kind of a role you play in the financial household, and what kind of role you play in the community and how this stock reflects and should be reflected, reflected in the type of offering we make or the bank makes to you? I hope it makes sense.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, it absolutely does. I think it’s that’s great. I love the idea of the personalization and the bundling and all that. It makes it makes a ton of sense. Well, Benzie, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate the conversation. And yeah, I would love to, , maybe have you on again sometime.

 Bentzi Aviv: I’d love to come back again. Thank you so much for inviting me. I enjoyed it a lot.