Revolutionizing Banking UX Jennifer Dimenna’s Journey in Fintech Innovation

Episode Overview

Jennifer Dimenna is the Senior Vice President of Product at Apiture, a digital banking technology provider focused on empowering community banks and credit unions across the U.S. With a career in financial technology spanning over two decades, Jennifer has been instrumental in guiding the development of user-centered digital solutions for financial institutions. She began her fintech journey in the mid-90s, combining her technical background in communication and computer science with a passion for digital innovation. Through her leadership, Apiture has developed advanced digital account opening solutions and secure, user-friendly experiences that bridge the gap between smaller banks and large financial institutions​(Jennifer-Dimenna audio)​

At Apiture, Jennifer leads a team dedicated to enhancing user experience through accessible and scalable digital banking tools. Her team’s work extends to innovations in embedded banking, API integrations, and a turnkey banking platform, each tailored to help community banks meet modern consumer expectations. By focusing on data intelligence and robust design principles, Jennifer and her team provide institutions with the resources to compete in a highly digital landscape, ensuring functionality and security are always top priorities​

Throughout her career, Jennifer has also been a prominent advocate for women in technology, establishing initiatives to support female representation in the fintech sector. Her experience includes key roles in product management and digital solutions with companies like ACI, Q2, and Zen monics, where she honed her expertise in digital product strategy. At Apiture, Jennifer continues to drive forward-thinking solutions, ensuring smaller banks can offer competitive, secure, and innovative services to their customers​

Episode Transcript

Kevin Rosenquist: Hey, welcome to Pay Pod, where we bring you conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of payments and fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist and thanks for listening. Jennifer Dimenna has loads of experience and knowledge in web technology, and now she’s the senior vice president of product at Apiture, a digital banking platform that serves community banks and credit unions. By offering a turnkey banking platform or API integration. Its platform integrates with over 200 fintech partners and multiple core banking systems, delivering services like digital account opening, API banking, and data intelligence. Jen and I discuss various topics including what makes a good user experience. Embedded banking and the importance of women in technology. It was a fantastic conversation and I know that you will enjoy it. So please welcome Jennifer Dimenna. I saw that your first job out of college in 1995 was as a web content manager. I’m curious, just for fun, what did that role look like in 1995?

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, so the internet was pretty new in 1995, and in fact, I got my first job out of college. I had put together some resumes, pretty, pretty lightweight at that time. And I had a couple of things listed. I had listed HTML, and I had listed my college, Georgia Tech, and I had listed my GPA, which was pretty high because I was a nerd. And when I went to the interview for that first job, the guy who became my boss had circled those three things in red Sharpie. Um, and I could see it on my paper, my paper has me sitting on his desk. I could see those three things circled, so he hired me to. It was really more of a marketing job, but they were on the web and this was a company that was in economic development. So they were trying to pull together businesses and communities. So communities that wanted that needed to develop their economic development, and then businesses who wanted to locate in those communities. And they needed someone who could write HTML and put some marketing content on the web. And they actually published a magazine. So they wanted to digitize their magazine and put that on the web. And that was my first job out of college, and it was really pretty cool.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s impressive for the forward thinking on their part.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah. Oh, very forward thinking. So the founder of the company was a Georgia Tech grad from the 40s. He had been a naval aviator, and he was an incredibly forward thinking guy. I mean, talk about a lifelong learner. Really interesting guy. Wow, that’s.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s really fascinating. Not only was he kind of on the forefront of using the web, but he was an older guy. So he was still willing to like, look at that. That is the potential that that had.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, absolutely.

Kevin Rosenquist: It was. How did you find yourself learning HTML?

Jennifer Dimenna: Also a good question. I don’t actually I don’t remember I knew so I was interested in computer science. My degree was in technical communication. But I had a minor in computer science. Um, so I was interested in computer science there. And in the 90s, if you’re interested in computer science, you were interested in the World Wide Web, and, you know, what was it going to do? How are we going to use that? And, um, and I think in order to be part of the web at that time, you were you were doing your own markup, like if you wanted to put a page on the web, you were you were learning HTML and and doing your own markup in order to put a page out there and be part of this internet. And so you had no choice. If you wanted to be part of it, you had to learn it.

Kevin Rosenquist: I wish I would have done that. I took, I took, uh, was it Fortran? Is that what that one? I took that, but that was useless. I should have done HTML, which I would have done what you did.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, if you want to. Yeah. You could have gone into like, the government or something with Fortran. I’m not sure. I’m not sure about that.

Kevin Rosenquist: I have a friend who’s an atmospheric scientist and he uses. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I’m not an atmospheric scientist, so I don’t know what I was thinking. I really don’t, by the way, quick sidebar. Uh, congrats on your Georgia Tech win over Florida State in Ireland. Isn’t that.

Jennifer Dimenna: Awesome? So yes.

Kevin Rosenquist: Amazing first game of the season I love I loved every minute of it. I was I was having a blast. I don’t have a a dog in that fight. So I always root for the underdog in those situations. So that was a fun game.

Jennifer Dimenna: That was a fun game to watch for sure.

Kevin Rosenquist: All right. So now you are the senior vice president of product with Apiture. You guys provide digital banking technology to community banks and credit unions. I’ve talked with guests on this show before about the user experience. Regular listeners of the show are tired of listening to me complain about bad UX, because it’s something that’s crazy. Uh, but you guys, I saw that you won some awards for your platform. Can you talk about how you build products that are robust and secure while still maintaining that positive user experience? Because I know that’s got to be a challenge.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, it’s a challenge. Um, but it’s one of the great challenges that we have. So we have an excellent user experience design team. And their goal is to make our software simple, um, easy to use expected so that a consumer or a small business, an individual who’s working for their small business, that what they’re doing through their digital banking experience is, is exactly what they need to do. They want to do it quickly. No one loves to spend time doing their banking. Um, I don’t care who you are. Doing your banking is not your primary objective. And if you’re a small business, it’s for sure not your primary objective. So our goal is to allow them to get into the system quickly, easily, securely in ways that are expected. Do they face ID in? Are they getting some type of one time passcode? But all of that is very normal expected behavior. But they get in. They can do what they need to do and do their banking, figure out where their finances are, make payments, um, check on receipts of payments and then move on. Um, and yeah, it’s challenging. but I think keeping those objectives in mind, uh, kind of helps guide, you know, doesn’t guide the features that we build, but it guides how we build those features expected.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s really that’s a great word. I don’t think I’ve heard someone describe the UX like that. And I think that that’s so smart because you’re doing your banking, you’re not looking for some crazy cool. Wow, look at this. Show your friends. This is the coolest thing you know app I’ve ever seen. You just want to be able to get in, get your stuff done and get out.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, yeah, yeah. We also use the term, um, kind of in the negative jarring. So if there’s an experience that’s jarring, that makes you go, whoa, what? What just happened? That’s bad. You know, that’s sort of universally bad. So we try to make it expected. So everything that you do is. Oh yeah, that’s. Yep. That’s what I expected to happen when I click that button when I entered that data. When I moved to that next screen, when I scrolled, that’s what I expected to happen. Um, and not be jarring, like, whoa, what? Just what just happened? Where am I? Do I still trust where I am? Did something weird happen? Did something show up that I didn’t think was going to be there? And then that makes me nervous. And when you’re nervous and you combine that with being on your bank’s mobile, um, your app or on their website, no one wants to be nervous when it comes to their finances. They want everything to be very secure, but also very expected.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, that’s a good point. If I’m on the NFL app and it’s acting wonky, I’m like, yeah, that’s annoying. If I’m on my banking app and it’s acting wonky, I’m like, is everything okay?

Jennifer Dimenna: Right. Yeah, yeah. So if somebody’s trying to get into this. Yeah, yeah. Totally.

Kevin Rosenquist: Totally. So that’s a really good point about it’s almost like nobody even notices what’s really happening if they’re not really even thinking about it. That’s probably a good thing.

Jennifer Dimenna: And I think it absolutely is a good thing. And I think our design team would also say that especially for, for like you said, we’re not here to build an app that is, you know, something super exciting and you know that you’re, you’re kind of showing off. But we do know that there’s a lot of competition for financial institutions. So if we can build an app and build a web presence that is so good that it gets people kind of talking about it, hey, I love my bank. You know, it’s for this, that or the other reason. Um, that’s a really good thing. Um, but the reasons that hopefully the reasons they’re going to love their banking experience is because of that simplicity and because of that trustworthiness, and not because it’s kind of flashy.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. Yeah, that’s a good point. You don’t need to be flashy. You need it to work and you need it to be, you know, easy on the eyes and all that stuff. Yeah, that’s very true. As far as the products themselves, do you guys offer both a turnkey platform as well as APIs that banks can use on top of their own platform?

Jennifer Dimenna: Uh, we do. Yep. So our turnkey platform has been around for a while. Hundreds of banks in the United States that use our platform. It’s a, um, to get a little nerdy. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a SaaS platform. So there’s only one version of software. Our financial institutions never have to upgrade. It’s very much like so we have a mobile app as well as a web app, a web presence. But with both of those, um, they’re, they’re similar in to a mobile app that you just never have to upgrade. You know, you’re always on the latest version of the software, which is a big selling point for us. Our financial institutions really like that because they never have to worry about getting behind. They never have to worry about, oh, you built a feature, but it’s not on my version. And you’re going to charge me a lot of money to get to the version that it’s on. There’s none of that. It’s a huge.

Kevin Rosenquist: Big pain to upgrade and do all that. Yeah.

Jennifer Dimenna: So we’re like, there’s none of that, you know, one version of software. And so it is very turnkey in that sense. Um, every feature that we build is available to all of our financial institutions at any time. We might charge them for it. There might be a price point in order to turn on or configure that feature. Um, but they’re always all available. But as Apiture and we like to say, you know, API is in our name. Um, uh, the features that we build are API enabled. Um, so if there is a financial institution that just wants to take advantage of pieces and parts, we have a developer portal. They can go out there, they can look at what’s on our developer portal. They can evaluate the APIs, see if what’s out there is useful to them. Um, and then they can contract with us for those APIs so that they can use that data in a way that they might want to use it.

Kevin Rosenquist: And you primarily are focused on credit unions and kind of smaller neighborhood banks. Correct.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, we call them community banks and even just kind of the regional bank space. Um, so anywhere we would say our sweet spot is between 2 billion and 20 billion, um, of a financial institution’s asset size. And so, yes, but banks and credit unions and yeah, that’s kind of our focus.

Kevin Rosenquist: Do you find that more more of these the smaller this I say small. He’s talking billions and billions of dollars. But of these people or these companies, these banks, do they lean more towards the turnkey or do they lean more towards the API, or is it kind of an even split?

Jennifer Dimenna: It really kind of. So there’s I was going to say that it really kind of depends on their size. So the larger the financial institution gets, the more interested they are in kind of owning their own and controlling their own destiny. So the bigger you get, the more likely you are to have developers, um, to have technology people at the, at the bank or at the credit union. Um, people who are able to build themselves. And so they want to have control. They want to be able to do that. They want to have their own user experience. And so they really just want the data that comes in through the APIs, and let them control some of their own user experience, smaller financial institutions, they’re just not investing in the technology. Um, you know, on their own. So they want a technology provider like Apiture that can do it for them. They know that they need to compete with the larger financial institutions. Um, but they just don’t have the technology budget to be able to do it all on their own. So when they use a provider like Apiture, you know, they can the the money that Apiture invests in our platform, you know, they’re the financial institution is only, you know, spending a fraction of that in order to take advantage of those features and functionality. They’re not having to build it themselves. They’re not having to maintain it themselves. They don’t have to worry about the security. They don’t have to worry about a lot of the technology challenges because they let Apiture do that for them. Um, so, you know, yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s a huge part. I mean, it’s not just building a platform, You know, it’s, you know, because you’re talking banking here. So security has to be paramount. And we just talked all a bunch about user experience and maintenance. And if there’s a breach and like so many things go into that. Yeah you kind of have to have a team on staff. You kinda have to have a team on staff in order to be able to run that on your own, or you hire a technology partner.

Jennifer Dimenna: Right? Right. Yeah. And we operate the platform on behalf of our financial institutions so that they don’t have to do it. Um, they have visibility into what we’re doing. And when we’re doing it, of course, we keep them very much abreast, um, they have access to all of their data if they want it. So we have a data, um, uh, solution that we collect all of their data, and we can give that back to them so they can keep track of all these things. But you’re right, they’re not having to do it on their own. They’re letting us do kind of the heavy lifting. And then we provide the benefit back to them, um, whether it’s operational or new product development or security or data or whatever it is.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. I was going to ask you about the extensive data that you guys provide, because one of the things that I, when I was reading up on Apiture is that you kind of pride yourselves on really robust data for, for decision making and whatnot. How is the data provided by Apiture unique, and what are some of the more valuable insights?

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, so we like to tell our financial institutions that they know everything there is to know about their customers, because they know where they spend their money. When you know where someone spends their money, you know a lot about them. That’s true, but there’s a lot of data, right? So there’s a tremendous amount of data and it’s easily captured. And we’ve been capturing that data for for a long time for our financial institutions. But then the question is what do you do with it? You have all of this data. It’s a, you know, it’s a goldmine of data. But you’ve got to have miners that can go through it and figure out what is the data, what does it mean, and then what are we going to do about it. And so I think that’s something that Apiture provides. We provide the data directly back to our financial institutions. If they want it, we’ll just feed it to them no problem. But then we also provide them some insights. So we are analyzing their data on their behalf. We allow them to look at that data to kind of mine through it. But we’re in a guided format. So we’ve got it as an online product. Right. And they can access their data. They can mine through it. They can, you know, sift through different, um, customers, different types of customers, geographies, different types of demographics. And then from that, they can our financial institutions can, um, they can actually campaign, create advertisements to certain segments of their base. Um, so they’ve learned something about their customers. They can segment those customers into specific areas, like maybe they’re, you know, young Gen Z, you know, maybe just barely, um, getting into college and, you know, trying to figure out, you know, what are they going to do about their finances? They’re not really sure how to manage their finances or trying to pay for college.

Jennifer Dimenna: They maybe have a side hustle. Um, but the financial institution can look at all that generate some information about their transactions, um, and then give the opportunity to, you know, maybe you offer, I mean, the kind of the trite response. Yeah, maybe offer them a credit card. You know, maybe they don’t need a credit card. You know, maybe they need some financial wellness tools. So maybe you could advertise to them. You know, maybe it’s a program that you have at your financial institution that that’s going to help a new college student, um, you know, be more financially savvy, understand how to manage their money when they don’t have very much of it, so that then when they do graduate and they get a job and they’re starting a family and they’ve got more money coming in, they have that basis of financial wellness that will carry them through into, you know, as they as they grow up. So it’s that, you know, that that kind of thing that you do all of that with data. Um, you’ve got if you’ve got the data and you’ve got that kind of insight in that way that you can mine through it, it just provides you as a, as a financial institution, this incredible way to to attract and retain your members. If you’re a credit union and your and your users if you’re a bank, um, to make them, you know, they, they want to stick around. They believe that your that their financial institution is going to be helpful for them, not just today but into the future.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. You brought up something before about how you’ve been providing this data for many years. Are people better at using data now? Because I feel like it’s talked about more than it used to be. And maybe part of that is just because we’re all kind of cognizant of our data. You know, our personal data, we’re always seeing about how our data is being used. There’s data this there’s data in the news. There’s data everywhere. Are people getting better at using it or is it just more out in the news these days?

Jennifer Dimenna: I don’t know that we’re actually getting a lot better at using it. I think we’re still on a continuum where, you know, the data’s been out there for a long time. We’ve now recognizing it. We’re cognizant of the data that’s out there. Not even really sure I know what all of that means. Um, but trying to get and I think some larger companies are certainly using data. They’re using it very effectively. Um, Amazon obviously uses data very effectively. They know how to advertise to you. You know, big tech is absolutely using data effectively. Um, I think smaller companies and, and I’ll put most financial institutions into that category. Certainly the financial institutions that we work with, um, tend to be smaller companies. They’re not using it. Well, they recognize it’s out there. I think they recognize that there’s a need to to understand the data to do something with it, to, you know, find it, find a way to allow that data to benefit them and their customers. But I think there’s a long way to go. Um, and, and I think a lot of companies would say, yeah, we, we know our data is out there. Not really sure what to do with it. We’re still trying to figure that out. We’re doing some small things, kind of trying things out. But it takes a lot. You know, it takes data analysts at the very least. It takes data scientists. When you start to get into really more, you know, kind of machine learning and, you know, really using that data to, to drive results in different areas. Um, and a lot of financial institutions, they don’t have that kind of technology budget to invest in those kind of resources that can really put their data to work for them. So there’s a long way to go.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, yeah. You mentioned machine learning. I was going to ask you if you thought that I would help speed things up as far as getting people in a position where they can really start using the data that they have to their advantage.

Jennifer Dimenna: It absolutely will. I am very bullish on AI. I think it’s going to be as transformative as the internet was back in 1995. And it all is based on data. It’s actually kind of fascinating. Apiture is doing some exploratory work around AI. And we’ve built a model and we’ve got a ton of data. Um, and even some of the things as we’re trying to train the model to see, you know, how do we maintain security? Um, as well as making sure that if you, if you ask it something about your finances that you’re going to get the right answer back. Um, and what we’re finding is that just even the amount of data that we have, we need even more. There’s so much data is required in order to really train these AI models. Um, it’s actually so and until they’re trained well, you are you run the risk of getting, um, you know, false information back out of them. And so we’re really, really conservative when it comes to that. I, I absolutely believe that we’re going to get there. We are not there today. And we’ve got a ways to go. And we certainly don’t want to be in a position where AI models are being used with consumers or businesses when they’re not, when they’re not accurate enough yet and they’re not accurate enough yet.

Kevin Rosenquist: Well, even ChatGPT I I’ll put it totally makes stuff up for me sometime where I’ll be like, are you sure about that last thing? It’ll be like, oh, I apologize that I inferred that from something. And I’m just like, weird. Like they call it the hallucinations, but it’s definitely even the largest, you know, maybe the largest player in the AI space still struggles with that.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think it’s just that it’s extraordinary to me, the amount of data that it takes to train these models. And when you start getting hallucinations and that kind of thing fed back into the model, like you’ve got to be able to, you know, carve those out, make sure that those stay out. only training it on data. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: I’d like to talk about embedded banking because this is something you’re seeing more of. And it’s interesting to me because I feel like the use cases are so plentiful. But of course, we worry about security and data privacy and all of that. Can you just kind of run through what embedded banking is and how Apiture is able to offer it in a secure way?

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah. So embedded banking is a really interesting, um, idea, um, that that really combines technology with partnership. Um, so far, for us, embedded banking is for a financial institution to take their assets, their digital assets. Um, that could be a widget that they have on their homepage. Um, that could be a module of their digital banking, call it transfers. You know, everybody has to transfer money between their own accounts, between accounts of, of, you know, colleagues or friends. Um, and it’s taking that digital asset and putting it somewhere out on the web that is maybe unexpected or just isn’t there today. So my favorite example is you’re a financial institution in a community and also in your community as a community college. Well, the students have to access the student portal of the community college every semester to pay their tuition for the next semester. Um, and maybe while they’re out there, they, you know, there’s lots of things they do on their student portal, but Maybe they log in to to pay for next semester’s fees, and they realize that they either don’t have their money in the right account, or maybe they’re short a little bit this semester and they’re not actually going to be able to pay their fees. Um, the idea of embedded banking would be for that community financial institution to have something embedded right there in that student portal where that student could transfer money between their own accounts. Maybe they could transfer money from Mom and dad’s account. Um, if access to Mom and Dad’s account. Or maybe they could.

Kevin Rosenquist: Be mom and dad. That’s risky.

Jennifer Dimenna: It’s a little risky, mom and dad. But, you know, you’ve already given them permission. So, um. Or maybe they could even apply for a short term loan. Or maybe there’s some way that they could, you know, or or it could be, again, one of these financial wellness ideas. Maybe they have paid their tuition for next semester and now they find themselves very, you know, that that bank account is very skinny. So okay, my tuition is paid, but how am I going to make sure I can eat? How am I going to pay for books for next semester? And it’s not that I need a loan, but I really could use some guidance. You know how maybe I want to start a side hustle, and I don’t know how to do that, but I can get some guidance from my financial institution. Not by going to the bank’s website, but right there within my student portal where I spend my time anyway. That’s the beauty of embedded banking, and that’s where I say it’s both a technology, um, alignment between the financial institution’s technology and the community banks technology. But it’s also a partnership. It needs that community bank and that community college to be partners, and that for them to recognize the power that they can bring to their students when they’re together. So that’s really the beauty of embedded banking. And there’s lots of different examples like that. It doesn’t have to be, you know, community banking, community college. That’s really good.

Kevin Rosenquist: Example though I think that’s really, really illustrates it well because course, everyone. Most people have experience of some sort of a student portal, whether it’s their own or their kids or something like that. Totally understand what you mean. Yeah, it’s a great I mean, I love the idea of it. I mean, I love anything that I love using technology to make my life easier. I mean, we all do, right? I mean, that’s what should be the goal is to make our lives easier. Do you envision embedded banking to continue to grow, and do you have any thoughts on where you might see it go?

Jennifer Dimenna: I, I personally think that that the idea is fantastic because I’m like you, I would love to be able to go to the the websites that I access most frequently and have, you know, and have that convenience, you know, have those other pieces and parts right there for me. whether that’s, you know, from a payments perspective, I think that would be really fantastic. And what we’re seeing when you’re out at e-commerce sites, there’s lots of different options around payments today that that didn’t used to be there. Used to be just credit cards. Um, and then maybe some merchants would allow you to enter like an e-check. You put in your checking information and they would process that through. Ach, that took.

Kevin Rosenquist: A while to.

Jennifer Dimenna: It took a while about.

Kevin Rosenquist: Where things were. It was only not. It maybe took a while, but I definitely remember when the only option was credit card.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah, yeah. And if you didn’t have a credit card, you couldn’t buy the thing. Yeah, yeah. And I mean, banks now have lots of different ways to pay. That would be great if we could embed some of those into those e-commerce sites and to make them a little bit more, um, just a little bit more everyday. So, you know, the United States is rolling out a real time payment scheme where money should be able to move much, much more quickly between business to business as well as business to consumer. Um, consumers kind of already have that with things like Venmo and Cash App and Zelle and that type of thing. Um, but businesses are still quite a bit constrained about moving money quickly. So the real time payments that is being rolled out by the US fed should really help that. But that would be beautiful to see some of those payments, those other payment options in the areas where we do business. So on those e-commerce sites, um, if a business is needing to go to, you know, to, you know, to Staples Online in order to buy things for their business, you know, they wouldn’t always have to use a credit card or a purchase order or that kind of thing, but they should be able to use one of these, you know, more, you know, more bank centric payment methods, um, embedded in the website where they’re going to spend the money anyway.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, that’s amazing. That’s a great idea. Um, I want I want to travel back in time with you for a second. I want to ask you about your college thesis. Right. I noticed that you wrote it on the role of women in academia. And I’m curious how 2020 for Jennifer looks back on that and how would. 1995 Jennifer feel about where we are today.

Jennifer Dimenna: So I wrote the thesis on the role of women right in academia in the academy, but it really has translated pretty well into, you know, the role of women in business. Um, and I’ve always been a very strong proponent of, um, of women in business. I have started or been a part of women in technology groups at almost every company that I’ve been in. Um, we have one at Apiture. It’s called AP women. And it is really to, you know, kind of promote women in the technology space into leadership, um, into recognizing that, you know, women engineers, although they are there’s not a lot of them. Um, they’re important, you know, their perspective is important. Um, and, and kind of having that, that diversity of thought of culture, of um, of upbringing of, you know, what college you went to, like, having all of that diversity, I think is, is incredibly important. I don’t know. I’d love to be. I wish that I was a little more optimistic, like things have changed in the last, you know, 30 years. They maybe haven’t changed quite as rapidly as I thought they might have. Um, I have a I have a daughter who’s 29. Um, and I have been known to say to her like, I’m sorry we didn’t make more progress. Like, I, I kind of thought we would have, um, over the last 30 years. And, yes, progress has been made, but, man, the wheels turn slowly. Um, and there’s still a lot of work to do around. Yeah, just, you know, inclusion and diversity and equality and all the things there’s, there’s a, there’s a lot of work to do.

Kevin Rosenquist: Well, and unfortunately, we seem to be moving in the wrong direction in a lot of ways too. To. We’re getting rid of programs. We’re getting rid of rights. We’re getting rid of too many things that have been fought for and, and and it’s it’s it’s hard it’s hard to watch even as a man like who, who supports equality. It’s very difficult to to see that. And I was wondering if that was going to be the case, if you had hoped that you might have, that we would have gotten further than we have in 30 years. You’re right. There’s been progress, but maybe limited progress.

Jennifer Dimenna: Yeah. Yeah. I think if I think if 1995, Jen had looked into the crystal ball and seen 2024 Jen, she’d be I think she would be so disappointed as to be just as to not believe it. It would just be unbelievable. Like, oh, that can’t possibly be. You know, something must have happened in there that, you know, we must have gone back to the Dark Ages, and then we had to start over, because otherwise we would have made much more progress. You could.

Kevin Rosenquist: Argue we did a little bit for a while.

Kevin Rosenquist: Maybe we’re not so totally out of it, right? All right, final question. Who’s going to have a better record, your Atlanta Falcons or my Chicago Bears this year?

Jennifer Dimenna: So although I am a sports fan and I do love sports, I am not at all into predicting or anything because I just don’t follow it that closely. So I will say the Falcons will simply because the Falcons and they’re going to be awesome. Okay.

Kevin Rosenquist: Hang on. Let me write this down. Jennifer was wrong about the last question. Okay. All right. Well Jennifer with Apiture, thank you so much for being here and giving us your insights. We really appreciate your time.

Jennifer Dimenna: Absolutely. It’s been fantastic. Thanks, Kevin.