Revolutionizing Payment Solutions Paul Clarke on the Rise of Cashflows

Episode Overview

Paul Clarke is the Chief Product and Innovation Officer at Cashflows, a leading payment solutions provider based in the UK. With over 20 years of experience in the payments and fintech industries, Paul has built a reputation for driving innovation and simplifying financial transactions for businesses. His career began in the early 2000s with roles at prominent firms such as Worldpay, where he played a significant role in developing e-commerce solutions and enhancing the overall payment experience. At Cashflows, Paul oversees the development of omnichannel payment systems, subscription management tools, and risk management solutions tailored for small to mid-sized businesses. Cashflows’ mission, “Payments Perfected by People,” reflects Paul’s commitment to combining technology with human insight, helping businesses streamline financial transactions and improve customer experiences.

Under Paul’s leadership, Cashflows has earned recognition for its innovative approach to payments, focusing on flexibility, ease of use, and a robust infrastructure that meets modern security standards. Cashflows leverages cloud-based technology to offer integrated payment solutions across online, in-store, and mobile channels. Paul’s role includes identifying market needs and anticipating customer demands, allowing Cashflows to quickly adapt to new fintech trends. Paul’s emphasis on user experience has driven the company to create seamless omnichannel solutions, allowing merchants to handle all payment types within one system. His forward-thinking approach helps Cashflows stay competitive in a fast-paced industry, making it an essential partner for businesses navigating the digital economy.

Paul Clarke’s expertise goes beyond product development; he is also passionate about educating businesses on the importance of customer-centric services in fintech. He believes in adapting to consumer expectations, whether through same-day settlement options, simplified subscription management, or personalized support. Paul has guided Cashflows to prioritize transparency and convenience, ensuring clients can easily manage payments with minimal friction. His customer-first approach has been instrumental in expanding Cashflows’ market presence in the UK and Europe, where it holds acquiring licenses. By focusing on relationship-building and personalized solutions, Paul aims to help Cashflows redefine what it means to be a customer-focused fintech company, balancing the latest technology with a human touch.

Episode Transcript

Kevin Rosenquist: Hey, and welcome to PayPal where we bring you conversations with the trailblazer shaping the future of payments and fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thanks for listening. Paul Clarke has been in the payments game for over two decades, and now he’s the chief product and innovation officer at Cashflows, a payment solutions company with a focus on providing seamless financial services for businesses across various sectors. Their mantra is simple payments perfected by people. Their focus is on providing the best user experience possible, by listening to their customer’s pain points and creating an omnichannel system that is seamless and easy to manage. We discuss how Cashflows achieves all of this, how to make the subscription model successful, and much more. So please welcome Paul Clark. All right. You’ve been in the fintech payments e-commerce space for over two decades now. Obviously, a lot has changed in the past 20 plus years. What innovation has had the biggest impact on the fintech landscape in your opinion?

Paul Clarke: Innovation I think I mean you’re right. So I’ve been in payments, particularly as part of fintech, since probably the early 2000, I guess. And so I think just the from a payments point of view particularly, it’s not necessarily an innovation, but the increasing focus on customer experience. That was really boring. It’s not like one particular brilliant piece of innovation that’s changed the world, which, you know, would be much more interesting probably to talk about, but certainly, hey, we.

Kevin Rosenquist: Talk about the user experience a lot on this podcast. It’s it’s a big deal.

Paul Clarke: Yeah.

Paul Clarke: Yeah it is. And I think that maybe from a banking and banking payments point of view. Certainly in the first decade or so,there wasn’t really the core piece that I think people were focusing on. It was all about just providing the capability, providing the technology without really too much thought for the so what of that? What’s the outcome? How do you actually get really great at that? How do you maybe tailor some of those experiences? How do you get focused on delivering that solution? A really simple, easy way. So I mean, that’s the biggest change over that period of time probably has been much more of a shift to get in whatever that end customer is, whether it’s a merchant, whether it’s a consumer , a cardholder, somebody buying or selling something, how do you get a really, really great experience for that person at that moment in time? And then all the things that have come out of that, whether that’s, you know, AI that help you do that, whether that’s tools that enable you to think about how to to offer those things, whether it’s kind of hyper personalization, which is, you know, some of the trends we can talk about more.

Paul Clarke: Now, all that, though, is about trying to just drive that experience and make that as good as possible. That’s probably the biggest, the biggest shift for me over that period of time, particularly when I look back to the early days of what we were delivering from an e-commerce point of view. You know, one of the pictures when when I’m in my very early days at Worldpay, before it became Worldpay, when it was still part of RBS, you know, just talking about the fact that we existed because the banks made it really, really hard for anybody to do an e-commerce transaction whatsoever. Right? It was just, oh, you want to do e-commerce? Okay. It’s up to you. If you can send us the transaction and it looks like that, we might do it for you. That was kind of the way I think the banks at that time approached E com. And so, you know, even at that point while making that simple, making that easy, making it possible for people to actually do that stuff, that’s been probably the biggest change over that time.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. I think that, you know, like I said, we talk about user experience a lot on this show. And I mean, it’s user experience is everywhere. It doesn’t matter what because we all have our phones on us at all times and we’re all on, you know, subscribe to 15 different streaming platforms and Spotify and whatever else you’ve got, you know, so the user experience is so important. And is it what you have seen is it the demand from the customers that has changed that the most? Is it the expectations of it being a smooth experience that kind of made like the payments industry and fintech in general go, oh man, we got to we better we better do this differently. We better make this better. Yeah.

Paul Clarke: Totally. Totally. As consumer expectation and you know, that’s the only thing that changes in the end. Consumer demand and consumer expectation I think so many times we’ve tried to change things where there wasn’t a consumer demand for something. And you try to change consumer behavior. You can’t do that unless there’s actually a need and a want and expectation for it from a consumer point of view. And I think that’s been created, you know, through multiple different, , areas that have created this just expectation from a consumer product. We all have it. why doesn’t something work easily? Why do I have to put lots of information in. Why can’t I just look at something and it know what I want, and it pays for something that I can’t that and it’s that expectation has kind of been created. And I think the really smart fintech and, , smart payment businesses understood that and started developing, creating solutions, propositions that enabled that and then the rest of the sector, the bigger traditional legacy players had to follow in and get involved to, to stay relevant. Right, as much as, as much as anything. So yeah, I think that’s, that’s that’s definitely the way that that’s happened. And I think if you can deliver that capability and you can deliver that experience, then you’ve got a much better chance of winning. Right. And so I think that’s, that’s, that’s what’s led to that as far as we can see for sure.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. And I feel like I you know, we’ve talked on this show before too about how banks seem to be the ones who are the most part behind the larger the institution, the more behind the user experience seems to be. I mean, I’ve used the example of like, I’ve, I’ve called my bank before, I’ve gone online and stuff, and sometimes I’m just like, wow. I mean, I beg with a very major bank. It’s like, how? How is this not better? But at the same time, I suppose that sort of opened the door for all of the other, I want to say, smaller, but smaller than the big bank players to come in and go, okay, we’ve got a better solution and then figure out a way to work together with the banks.

Paul Clarke: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Yeah, exactly. And I think that’s particularly in payments, a big proportion of the existing value chain, if you like, has been created purely for that reason. Right. So there’s so many different steps in the payments journey now that happens. Most of them go unseen. Right. A large number of those are from newish or vendors that have got involved recently in improving parts. And the steps of that journey the banks either couldn’t see, couldn’t evolve to, or just, you know, weren’t in the game at that point in time. And so, yeah, that kind of partnership had to happen. But I think from the bank’s point of view, I think what they bring to the equation still at the back end, you know, the structure, the scale, the security, all of the regulatory piece that has to go around something as important as payments is still really, really important. So that’s why I think a combination of has been challenging. And almost that juxtaposition helps drive the industry forward because you’ve got new challenges coming in trying to change things, but a regulatory security environment that you have to kind of maintain. And how do you kind of continue to push those two things along? And I think that’s what’s led to a lot of innovation in payments, particularly. And why I know I’m biased. I’ve been in payments for a long time, but why we still think it’s one of the most interesting places to be and where we see innovation happen, happen a lot. , because of that kind of, you know, yin and yang of trying to drive that, that, that forward, I guess.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. So now you’re with Cashflows and you guys. Yeah. You guys have a pretty robust suite of offerings from payment gateways to merchant accounts. , there are a few other areas you guys really excel in. One is omnichannel capabilities. Not all payment companies offer a seamless integration across multiple channels online, mobile, in person, but it’s certainly a big value add. Can you talk about the importance of an omnichannel payment solution?

Paul Clarke: Yeah. And it’s it’s again, it’s just about simplicity really. I mean, I think, you know, in lots of ways we’re fortunate been a reasonably new company. So a company that’s only been around. Well, I say only, you know, in this business. The company was formed in 2010. So we often we talk about ourselves as back, you know, been a 12, 13 year old startup because it definitely feels like that, even though the business has been around for a while.

Kevin Rosenquist: So 13 years startup. Yeah.

Paul Clarke: Well, it feels it definitely feels like that. Yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, I believe it.

Paul Clarke: Maybe more a teenager than a toddler now if you like a revolution. But certainly it feels like that. , but yeah. So I think what what’s that enabled what that enables us to do, maybe compared to traditional acquirers, is we built a lot of our technology, a lot of our infrastructure in recent times, as opposed to it being legacy systems that, you know, have have had to be bolted on to and adapted. And that’s really, really hard to do when you’re running a massive scale business that has to be secure. It has to, you know, adhere to a whole bunch, and it has to work all the time, every time. , to do that and to evolve is just really hard to do. So. So I think, you know, fortunate in that respect in terms of we’re a reasonably new company, our tech is reasonably new. It’s all cloud based. And so it enables us to do stuff more easily and omnichannel. I mean, again, it’s one of those things, one of the things we talk about within cash flow is, is trying to keep things simple, including language. And it’s a word that we tried to ban using internally a couple of years ago just because it was the buzzword and everybody had an omnichannel something or an omnichannel this and omnichannel that. , but what does it actually mean for us? It means giving customers just a really simple and single view of their ability to accept payments. So it doesn’t really matter if you want to accept it online in a face to face environment, mobile, uh, any of those kind of channels that you want to The integration is very similar.

Paul Clarke: The customer experience is identical. You can see all of your transactions in one place. You can do things with your transactions through one portal. , it’s nothing really more sophisticated than that in that, that ability. But it’s harder to achieve than it probably sounds in terms of doing that across the kind of payments landscape. So, so yeah. So that’s, that’s, that’s what our core product does and is provides that, you know, end to end stack that’s across all the different channels, which is modular, simple to integrate. And that’s where we’ve, you know, managed to have most of our success is because of that ability to kind of deliver that in a really simple and easy way to do so. From a merchant, it means, and this might sound really, I guess, simplistic. Why isn’t all payment transactions like this? But you’d be surprised how many merchants today still have to, you know, for their cardholder present stuff in person. They have one provider with one set of reporting and technology here. E-commerce, a different provider and technology. Over here, the mobile stuff might be somewhat different. The software that runs the store or the core business is again something different. And so all of those things add a whole level of complexity. When all the merger wants to do is sell stuff. Right.

Kevin Rosenquist: So it sounds like already there.

Paul Clarke: Yeah, exactly. , so that’s why there’s a lot of value in that. And that’s where I think the benefit and value from a customer point of view comes. So yeah. So that’s to us that’s what it’s about. It’s just making it simple, having it all in one place, making it easy to use however you want to use it.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. And I think it all ties back to our conversation on the user experience. And you made the comment that like, it sounds easy, but it’s actually hard to do to put all that stuff together and make it all run seamlessly because of the fact that you’re constantly iterating, you’re constantly changing, trying to figure out, okay, what is how does this work? What does this do? How can we make this as seamless as possible? How did you guys just sort of just keep testing stuff out and see what people like? Did you do focus groups? How did you find that sweet spot?

Paul Clarke: Yeah. And it varies, I think, depending upon and continues to do as we develop new, new stuff, I guess, , a lot of the time actually, it’s not really focus group stuff. It’s we’ll build something because we can feel a demand. There’s a, you know, our customers are telling us or we see a market moving. , and we see there’s demand for a certain feature or capability. And I think over the years, what we’ve found both with Cashflows, but, you know, in previous lives throughout payments that actually usually the best and quickest way to to understand that demand really well, to solve for it is to try and deliver a solution for it and iterate and and build as you go. So, our kind of innovation path is much like that. We’ll see a demand. We’ll work with our customers to try and understand the problem they face. And then how can we solve that and then rapidly try and move to some kind of solution that starts to solve that problem. And then where that works, you know, we can evolve it, expand it, refine it, and that’s our kind of methodology for delivery. We’ve launched a product recently. Merchant cash advance or a cash advance product, which has been really, really successful. , but we launched it in a, a, , really quite manual way to start with. I mean, the consumer experience was really simple and easy to understand. But how we adopted it internally, we put in a whole bunch of old fashioned manual processes in place to make make the thing work in the first instance, because, , it allowed us to get something out very quickly, allowed us to iterate very quickly until you could really focus in on what was that sweet spot.

Paul Clarke: , and then at that point, you can add in the automation that’s required to then make it scalable and what have you? So, , yeah. And I think that’s just been our philosophy all the way through, is try and understand the problem, try and come up with some solution that fixes that problem as quickly as we can and then evolve it, expand it from there. And so far, fingers crossed that that’s worked really well. Yeah. That’s awesome. It also allows you to figure out stuff that doesn’t work, because you know that every time you build something 30, 40% of the time, it’s not going to work. It’s not the right time, it’s not the right place. And the quicker you can find those things out as well, without huge investment and huge time spent having to get to market, the quicker you can wind back from that and focus on the things that really do work. So yeah, such a bitter experience I think has got us to a point where we’ve got reasonably decent at delivering those types of capabilities, reasonably decent.

Kevin Rosenquist: So I also wanted to bring up the Anytime Settlement feature, which allows businesses to have access to their funds within hours instead of days, you know. Yeah, instant payments are being talked about a lot these days in the payment space. My country, the US, is far further behind than a lot of others as far as the instant payments go. And I’ve talked to some people that feel like it. Can it lead to more fraud because there’s less time to confirm authenticity and all that kind of stuff. Where do you land on that? Is that a concern in your mind?

Paul Clarke: Yeah, it can be. It can be. And so it’s something that, , we offer, , I mean, our standard offering is t plus one. So next day I settled by and large. Anyway, So that’s the standard from, from, from the schemes, , which is still pretty.

Kevin Rosenquist: Pretty good compared.

Paul Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think for a lot of our customers that that works really well. I think for some of the small businesses that we deal with. And, you know, our business is built focused on the small to medium sized kind of merchant space, if you like. And depending upon the industry sector, cash can be king. And so that one day extra can make a huge amount of difference to a small business. So that was the problem statement originally. And in the end it’s entirely a risk decision, a risk product to your point that the funding of the same day settlement is not a technical product for us in that respect. It’s purely us managing the risk between, you know, we receive the money from the schemes tomorrow, but we’ll settle to our customers today and we manage that risk overnight. , so, , the sectors that we operate in, the relationship we have with our customers allows us. And the fact that again, one of the sweet spots, I guess, from a CashFlows point of view is we do operate at scale, but we like to try and think that we operate on a, you know, we know our customers, we understand our customers.

Paul Clarke: We our risk approach to our customers is fairly integral to all that we do. So we can make some of those decisions that says, yeah, we’re prepared to take that risk because we understand that customer, we know their business. We maybe had some previous history with them. And so all of those things allow us to say that as a result of that, we can offer instant settlement to our customers and we’ll kind of stand in. , and ensure that that happens for them and sort of bridge that gap between the money coming from whichever car provider is so they can get funded and get on and do what they want to do. , and it kind of ties in with either we settle same day or the next step on from that is the the cash advance that we talked about a second ago, which is trying to solve that same problem, which is actually we can lend money based on credit card receipts and get payback from the credit card receipts. So we use that as the security for lending to provide better cash flow for investment decisions that the customer. I Want to make.

Kevin Rosenquist: Wow. Okay. Okay. That’s interesting. So yeah, you’re really right about it’s interesting like what you said about, you know, it’s you’re taking on the risk and the risk is worth it because it’s a value add to your customer. But the amount of times that you guys get, you know, screwed over by it is, is low enough where it’s worth it for you to keep that value add for your client.

Paul Clarke: Yeah. Yeah. Totally. And I think one of the things whenever we talk about, you know, whenever we do a what is it that that people come to CashFlows. What is unique about cash flow is where do you win. And yet technology and our ability to provide technology and all the things we talked about in terms of omnichannel and innovative technologies. Absolutely. You’ve got to be at the forefront of delivering those solutions. But realistically, where we really win is and why. One of our taglines on the website, you might say, is payments perfected by people is it’s that people bit that makes a difference. So the risk management, the risk understanding, the willingness to kind of really dig deep into understanding what is the risk appetite, how do you solve some of the fraud and potential chargeback issues in those types of situations? And probably that’s where we’ve put a lot of energy and experience from over the last few years, and really understanding that building tools that allow us to really manage that well for that exact reason that you can then, you know, help our customers, if you like, by just giving them access to their money that much quicker, , and enable them to do the things they want to do, which again, is all about helping them sell more stuff. Sell more? Yeah. More. Yeah, more product, whatever that is. I mean, that’s what we see ourselves in the game of doing really is just enabling ways to help people sell more stuff. In the end, what we do.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s simple and accurate. I like that that’s your new tagline on your website. We help people sell more stuff.

Paul Clarke: Tell me. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s something like that anyway. But I think it’s just dressed up more slightly. Just that little little that.

Kevin Rosenquist: Cleaned up maybe.

Paul Clarke: Yeah. But in essence that’s exactly what it is, is an example for people to sell more stuff. And that’s what drives all the decisions we make around product capability and how we even think about going to market with it. It’s got to have that end game, that end vision at the end of it. And you guys, you guys do.

Kevin Rosenquist: Subscription based products too for SaaS companies and stuff like that.

Paul Clarke: Yeah, yeah. , a large part of what we do is, is that as well, which again, is understanding the risk of that and what’s involved in that. So ensuring that. So a lot of our customers will have monthly subscription plans for a whole range of different product sets , to give them the tools to do that. , and there’s quite a few tools that you need to enable that to work without it becoming a real burden as well. So, you know, it’s on credit card, making sure the credit card expires, that it’s updated automatically. So using some of the tools that the scheme’s offered to in the background automatically update credit card numbers that are held on file so that there’s never an interruption to a subscription for that reason.

Kevin Rosenquist: I saw that on your site. The account updater. Right. Is that. Yeah, that’s what you call it. Yeah. How does that work? How do you. How are you able to get that to do that so seamlessly?

Paul Clarke: So I’d love to give you the technical description that anybody watching or listening to this, who knows technically how it works, will probably shoot me for my description of it. But in essence, it’s we have a regular connection with the scheme. So as as credit cards come to expire, we can pass tokenized information backwards and forwards to the schemes. And as part of that service, as the card comes to expire, we can substitute information from the schemes that allow us to substitute it for the updated card detail. There’s nothing more straightforward and simple than that. No, that’s really cool.

Kevin Rosenquist: I mean, I tell you, when my card expires, I get so tired of having to go to all my all the different places where my card is saved to have to update it, because otherwise you get the your payment, failed emails or messages and stuff. So that’s a very cool, very cool product.

Paul Clarke: By some stuff that disappeared off Dropbox. Gone forever, I think, because I forgot that I’d lost a credit card and forgot to go into Dropbox and do the annual subscription. And then, you know, I didn’t see the warning email coming through. And so they canceled my account. And everything that was on there has disappeared somewhere. , but for that reason. So, . Yeah, I mean, that’s increasingly more and more people are able to use that tool, something that the schemes have offered for quite a while. But it’s just another small thing that adds to that, making it simple, making it almost frictionless to accept and use payments. , and again, that’s a large part of what we try and do from a subscription point of view is quite, quite important for certainly for subscription customers, the ability to have that account update solution and the ability to maybe schedule payments in a way that you can change. It is easy to modify, and you can get access to reports that tell you how all that works. So , yeah. So again, that’s where I think we focused to try and solve those problems. Figure out for a subscription business what technically you need to make that happen. But B what’s the risk involved in that? And how do we kind of de-risk some of that stuff as much as possible?

Kevin Rosenquist: Do you see an increase in subscription based models or a decrease. Because I wonder sometimes because I feel like people have some fatigue when it comes to the SAS stuff. I mean, whether it’s Adobe or, you know, the Disney bundle or like there’s so many things out there where you just think about it and you’re like, man, I’ve my credit cards everywhere. I’m doing all sorts of stuff. Is the subscription based model going to continue to grow, do you think?

Paul Clarke: , I think it’s a really convenient way to pay. So I think for that reason, as long as we, you know, I guess as an industry, payments and the subscription based suppliers continue to, you know, act as good agents in that, then I think it should continue to, because I think a lot of companies who who offer those subscription models offer really simple ways of canceling, make it really clear how you need to cancel. Make it really simple. If you did want to cancel, all those types of things give you ample opportunity to do it. So for us, for example, when we’re thinking about who will take on board and who will provide payment capabilities for, that’s one of the key things we look for is are you offering the end consumer the ability to cancel? Is it simple? Because I think if you don’t do that, to your point, you can really risk ruining the experience that the consumers have. Because to your point, I mean, I’ve done the same thing before. When I look at I’ve got three subscriptions to the same provider for different things that I’ve signed up on at different times and forgotten about.

Paul Clarke: And then, you know, do the track back and you think, well, how much money have I just spent over the last year on things I didn’t even know I was actually spending money on? Right. The small amounts all add up, right? So they sure do. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So I think so. I think as a model, the end experience and the ability to do that makes it really simple because, you know, the number of subscriptions that you do have that you do like doing. , it’s not an issue. Right. So it’s so I think it will certainly continue to grow, but we have to be careful that we’re making sure that it’s done in the right way. And that, you know, back to the original point, consumers have that choice of being able to cancel and have control over what they do and make that as easy as possible. We don’t do that, that it can become a real you know, pain in the backside and that it’s not very useful.

Kevin Rosenquist: Well, that’s a good point, too. I guess you’re right. Now that I think about it, I feel like they’re better. They’re better about letting you know or giving you the option to cancel. Whereas I feel like for a while there it was. They were doing everything they could to make it hard, you know? And now that I get emails, your payment will be coming out in three days or whatever. And yeah, as long as we have that control that at least then we, we even the illusion of control is, is good. You know, as long as we feel like we’re not like clueless as to what is out there, then we should be okay with it.

Paul Clarke: Yeah. Totally agree. Yeah. And so I think a lot of the, you know, people who rely on businesses that rely on subscription as the core piece of their business will do that well, because it’s really important for them to be able to do that. And, you know, for the long term benefit of the business and their consumers and that relationship they have with that end customer, it’s important for them to do that. So for that reason, I think it’s definitely here to stay and will continue to grow. But we always have to be careful that we’re not overusing it for sure. Yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: So the payment space, it’s competitive. And as the chief product and innovation officer over at Cashflows, how difficult is it to stay on the cutting edge of the industry and to continue to keep the company growing?

Paul Clarke: Yeah.

Paul Clarke: Well, it’s hugely competitive, like you say, , across the world, no different in the UK and across Europe. So we’re focused, we’re based in the UK, but we have European business as well. So we have acquired license in the UK and Europe. , so we’re very different competition across all the different markets. You know Europe is a market 27 different countries. And within that there’s some complexity. And I think where and so it’s, you know, constant battle and and challenge and that’s where the fun comes as well. Right. It’s painful but also the fun bit is constantly trying to ensure that you are on the cutting edge of that.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s why you do what you do, right? That’s exactly the challenge. And it’s enjoyable.

Paul Clarke: Yeah, totally. Totally. But I think for us that comes through. And again, not not trying to be too cliched about it, but back to that original point of the payments perfected by people. That’s where we’ve kind of hung our hat on what Cashflows does. Way back in when we we I say we, the current management team joined the business 3 or 4 years ago, set the direction of where we wanted to take the business at that point in time, did a lot of thinking about how was cash flow, what could we do that would differentiate, and what is it that we did every day that allowed us to differentiate from all of the competition, who also have equally great technology and various other things that they can do? Sure. And for us, it can. It came back to that, making sure that, yeah, the technology has to be right. It has to be the leading edge has to be stable, secure. But the real difference, the thing that will make the difference is the people we have in our business, how we onboard our customers, how we service our customers, how we deal with issues that they might have and how we help them. You know, getting back to that, how we help them sell more stuff. So that’s a key piece for us that makes a lot of our decisions for us. So when we think about which markets we’re going to go into, how do we service them.

Paul Clarke: You know, we want to make sure that there’s multiple ways we can service customers, including speaking to a real person if they want to do that at some point in time. How do we onboard customers in a way that’s as simple as painless as possible? So we put huge amount of effort into the ancillary piece that sits alongside the technology, because that’s so far been the kind of ingredient for us that’s worked really well and enabled us to continue to grow a lot of our how we go to market largely through partners, which which makes it equally more important. So we built the business with the end customer in mind in terms of the solution offering. But we go to market through a host of different partners. So for therefore we need we always have two customers making sure the service serves the merchant at the end and the partner, whether it’s a software vendor, independent sales organization or another partner that is involved in the payments chain. Also, we’re making sure what we provide for them is simple, easy to use, and they’ve got somebody to fall back on that they can talk to if they need to. So so we have two different customer sets, but in the end it’s the same thing. It’s you know, how do we add that personal element to hopefully some great technology. And it’s as simple as that and as complicated as that. Yeah. At the same time.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah that, that.

Kevin Rosenquist: That actually that checks out. That checks out. Yeah. Well Paul Clarke With Cashflows, thank you so much for joining me. And yeah best of luck to you guys going forward.

Kevin Rosenquist: Likewise. Thanks for the time. Nice to meet you.