Revolutionizing Finance TowerBank’s Bold Move into Crypto with Ikigii

Episode Overview

Gabriel Campa is a dynamic leader at the forefront of the fintech revolution, combining his extensive experience in technology, business development, and crypto. Originally trained as an architect, Gabriel’s creative problem-solving approach set the stage for his transition into the world of technology and finance. His entrepreneurial journey took an unexpected turn when he became Senior VP for Sales at a shipyard in Panama, where he rapidly learned the business, gained deep operational knowledge, and eventually became a pivotal figure in the organization. His hands-on leadership style, marked by a continuous drive for innovation and improvement, eventually led him to the world of cryptocurrency, where his curiosity and passion for tech converged. He immersed himself in the crypto space, learning about mining, community dynamics, and the potential of digital currencies to transform finance.

Gabriel’s deep understanding of both traditional finance and emerging technologies made him the ideal person to lead TowerBank’s entry into the crypto market. In his current role, Gabriel spearheads the development of Ikigii, a groundbreaking product that merges crypto and traditional banking into a seamless financial solution. His efforts to launch this product have been rooted in a strong belief in financial inclusion and the power of cryptocurrency to revolutionize how people access and manage their money, particularly in underserved regions like Latin America.

With a background in managing large-scale operations and implementing innovative tech solutions, Gabriel’s approach to Ikigii reflects his belief in practical, user-focused innovation. He led Tower Bank’s initiative to integrate crypto into their banking services, navigating complex regulatory landscapes while maintaining the highest standards of security and compliance. Gabriel’s vision for the future of finance is one where crypto and traditional banking coexist to create a more inclusive and accessible global economy. His passion for the crypto community and his dedication to solving real-world problems continue to drive his work, positioning him as a leading voice in the evolving fintech space.

Episode Transcript

Gabriel Campa: You see, for the price of bitcoin a few months ago it was 30 something. Now it’s 58, right? That growth no bank in the world can get it. Not even JPMorgan, not Goldman Sachs. None of those banks can get enough capital to cover. It.

Kevin Rosenquist: Hey, welcome to PayPod, where we bring you conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of payments and fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thanks for listening. Question if you could have a crypto wallet that was also a bank account for fiat currency, complete with a debit card that allowed you to control and even spend both freely? Would you be interested? Gabriel Campa and the team at TowerBank are betting that you would. That’s why they are introducing a new product called Ikigii to Latin America. They believe crypto is essential to an inclusive economy, and they are excited to help people have access to it and control their finances. I’ve interviewed plenty of people who are bullish on crypto, but this is taking it to a whole new level and it’s a super interesting conversation. Please welcome Gabriel Campa. So your background is in architecture. What prompted you to leave that world and go into tech? 

Gabriel Campa: I started in architecture. It was very difficult to find something that I liked. Uh, I have a very creative mind out of the box thinking. So the traditional stuff was very, very hard for me to get a grasp of, uh, so I discovered architecture, and it was more the university where I studied, it was more it was less technical. It was more creative. Right. Um, so I did that before I finished university. The group had a shipyard here in Panama that they repaired Panamax vessels, the entrance of the canal. And they called me one day and said, hey, we want you to come to the shipyard and work. We want you to start from the beginning and I started all the way from the beginning and I until I ended up being the senior VP for sales, global sales. And I was number two, number three in operations of the shipyard. I had no idea how to repair a ship, but I learned I learned the business, right? I learned about welding. I know about mechanics. I can quote a cruise ship easily with a team. And there I’ve always been very technological, but I’ve always been very curious. Right? I like to solve problems. I would grab a the way they would weld a ship before I would grab the general idea. I was like, why don’t we do it this way? Does it work? Yes, but we’ve never done it that way. But let’s try it. Maybe it’ll work. Sometimes it did, sometimes it didn’t.

Kevin Rosenquist: So you weren’t able to do that even without that mechanical background?

Gabriel Campa: Yeah, I understood the problem. I found a different way to do it.

Kevin Rosenquist: Okay. Okay.

Gabriel Campa: That’s pretty cool. Yeah, definitely. And my brain never sleeps because of that. Because I’m always thinking of different solutions for the future, right? Yeah. So came the pandemic. Uh, and I got involved in crypto. Uh, I started mining. I mean, no one could leave their home. So I started buying GPUs, and I started crypto mining, and I started to I. Yeah, you don’t mess around. I began. Yeah. No, I always like to do stuff. Yeah, but what what got my I, I knew about crypto before but really got my I was community. Okay. When I started asking the community how do things normally you would hear it all the time. If you go to the to the competition and you ask them for help, they blow you off. They would sit down with you at two in the morning, three in the morning with my GPUs and help me, uh, tune them because I was having problems. I would write in one of the groups like, hey, I’m having this problem. So I fell in love with it. I’m like, all right, this is an interesting thing. They want more people to get involved. So that was very technological. I had to learn how to configure a GPU and do all that stuff, and I had to run it remotely because I was doing it in El Salvador with a friend. So that was fun having to go over there during the pandemic once in a while.

Kevin Rosenquist: How was how did you handle the electricity costs? That’s what everyone always says. Like people I know who tried to mine crypto early on were like, I couldn’t make enough money to justify the electricity costs.

Gabriel Campa: When crypto was high, it made sense. But when we got the bear market and it just stopped making sense. And by that time I started working in the bank and I had no more time. At the beginning, uh, there was a lot of technical thinking and analyzing and building the product that we have, that we’re soon to launch. And that took all my time. Uh, so I left that aside, but I learned a lot. I learned about the community. I met interesting people. I understood them, what they were, their needs. So when I come to the bank, I was participating in, in the next ten years of the bank, write the business plan for the next ten years. The strategic planning for the next ten years. And we identified the bank. We had clients working with crypto. And initially it was a risk because we had no idea where the money was coming from, where it was going. So we started interviewing some clients. And when we started talking to them, it was like, okay, it’s a risk. We can understand it. There’s a huge business opportunity here. Okay. And that’s the mindset that the organization has. We find complications and we find a way to help and benefit from it at the same time. Right. Make it a business for the organization, and we started understanding their needs. And we were like, you know what? Let’s build a crypto business inside the bank. Not like other companies are doing that. They do it outside of the organization. We wanted to do it inside, and that was the best decision that we could have made, because when we spoke to the regulator and we spoke to the corresponding banks, they were like, you’re a 54 year old bank, single family owned.

Gabriel Campa: We’ve never had any ties to illicit activity. Like we take care of how we do business very, very, very well. So I was like, we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. We’ll support you, begin this, this business expansion into crypto. And given that we were building it inside the bank, it was inside the confines of the regulation of the bank. So we had our compliance team. We had our risk team 54 years, 54 years in business. We know how to do this right. Crypto and traditional finance, they’re not that different. They’re a little different. I mean, they’re a little different, but they’re different in the way that it’s more traceable. Okay. Right. It’s more transparent. Sure. But it has to make sense. You need to know where the money is going. You need to know where it’s coming from. You need to do AML. At the end of the day, it’s part of the day to day. You have to look at it differently. That’s where I come in. I look at it in a different way, but you have to, but you have to have the basics, right? That’s why you hear so many fintechs in the world that they have great ideas, but they don’t have that financial background in their key team. And unfortunately, many of them, uh, disappear after a few years. Right? They don’t have that governance behind them. They don’t have that compliance behind them. It’s not the same thing having a head of compliance, working 20, 30 years in compliance versus a guy that just graduated from the university, right? Yeah, yeah. Right. Uh, so that gave us a big advantage.

Kevin Rosenquist: Well, another one to I mean, most banks steer clear of crypto. I mean, at least in their bank. Like, they don’t generally make it part of their arms, if you will.

Gabriel Campa: No, it started to happen. Right. Today you have three new banks in Japan that are getting involved. One of the oldest Swiss banks is getting involved. They’re going to offer crypto to their clients. Uh, in the US, most of the big banks offer it. They’re just they have some restrictions legally, the way that the regulation works in the US. Fortunately in Panama, what we did is because you shouldn’t have crypto in the books, right? We don’t buy, we don’t sell, we don’t take custody of crypto. We don’t have crypto on the books. All the crypto that we work with belongs to our clients. And what we did is we have a trust. Trust is the face of it. It is what controls everything in the background. And the bank is the face. So it’s a three party contract bank trust client. The bank cannot do anything with the crypto if the client does not authorize it through the trust. Okay. So at the end of the day, the client has full exposure to their crypto. It’s technically under their control because legally we cannot do anything with it if they don’t approve it. Right. And that allows us to have it in the bank. The problem in the US is, given that banks cannot offer their clients services from a third party, a trust is a third party. They’re forced to have it on the books. And they can’t do that because you see the price of Bitcoin. A few months ago it was 30 something. Now it’s in 58. Right. That growth no bank in the world can get it. Not even JPMorgan, not Goldman Sachs. None of those banks can get enough capital to cover that growth. Right. So it doesn’t make sense. And at the end of the day, it’s a high risk for the bank. Right. Of course it’s too volatile.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s way too volatile. Absolutely.

Gabriel Campa: Um, so our, uh, they had so I designed the whole technology, I built everything, I designed it with a, with a with two teams, one in the doctor, one in Spain and Colombia. And we divided the bank in two. Right. Do we have the head of technology of the bank? He came in most at around the same time that I came in. And that’s something I did when I spoke at DC with Appian. Right. And, and the main thing that we’re using to build this. Right. Our whole core of crypto runs on Appian. We built it on Appian. I could have gone to third party companies and had them build it for me or white label. We decided to build our own. We control it. we can do. We can design it tailor made to our needs. And we picked Appian. So we divided the bank in two. The head of technology was going to run the traditional bank, and she was going to modernize the traditional bank, and I was going to have my own team, and I was going to design the future of the bank. At the beginning, we were working in parallel. Right. She was doing her stuff. I was doing my stuff. And around eight months ago we joined forces. Now it made sense. Let’s work together side by side. Some things I build it.

Gabriel Campa: Some things you build it. We’re both working on Appian. That’s the beauty of Appian. We can have two different teams designing completely different things, but we can work together. I have control of what everybody sees. Given that we’re building our own technology, we’re. We’re protecting that IP. Right? We don’t want everybody to know how we built what we built. Appian allows me to do that. But to work with different people, different teams, different integrations, connect to a whole bunch of services. I mean, I think today we have, I don’t know, 300 processes running API and we did that. We’ve done that in less than two years, and we only have close to 300 employees in the bank. I mean, we’re not small we’re not a big bank, right. We have $1 billion of their assets. We don’t have what the big banks have to develop. Mhm. So we made a great team. That’s the beauty of how the bank works and operates. And we’ve been able to build this and we’re soon to launch it. Uh it comes from the word ikigii. Your sense of the world, the Japanese uh word. Okay. And it is the first I think I can still say this. It is the first crypto wallet in the world. That is also a bank account in US dollars.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s certainly the first time I’ve ever heard of.

Gabriel Campa: This.

Kevin Rosenquist: That. And that’s why I was like, I was like, whoa. Like I was like, all right, I gotta talk to this guy. I gotta figure out what’s going on here, because, I mean, it’s essentially like, I mean, it’s essentially a bank account for crypto, right?

Gabriel Campa: It’s a bank account for crypto. You have US dollars and you got crypto. They work side by side. If you want to work in the crypto world, you can, uh, send crypto. You can receive crypto and you can convert it to US. Dollars live on the spot 24 over seven. Uh, you have access to ACH in Panama and you have access to Swift worldwide. Uh, nothing like that exists for the region is high impact. Argentina, Colombia, Brazil. Uh, now Bolivia, with the crisis that they’re having, it’s a solution that we think it’s something that that we believe in is Latam has been ignored for many, many years. Uh, they have big needs and there’s a lot of money in Latam, right? But they’ve been I mean, I’m a US citizen. I can buy stocks, I can invest in the US. I have that flexibility. I don’t suffer that that other suffer. But many people want to invest in the stock market but they can’t. It’s very, very difficult to do that. Uh, many people want to buy crypto or sell crypto in a safe way and an inexpensive way. It’s kind of difficult because banks are restricting it. Now banks are starting to change the conversation. Now they’re being more open. They’ve seen the benefit of this. But a lot of people are suffering and they’re suffering for a long time.

Gabriel Campa: So I this is a win win situation for us as a group, but for the community in Latam, mainly in Latam, but uh, mainly, let’s say Argentina, uh, Bolivia, Colombia, you mainly see USDt, Usdc, right. Stablecoins backed by the US dollar. Why do you see that? Because your currency is devaluating constantly. But if you go to, uh, to other countries in the region, you’ll see Bitcoin, you’ll see Ethereum. Those are your investors. So you have both. And we’ve seen we’ve seen the need immediately. And the technology that we’re implementing with APN has allowed us to do this fast. I launched the first service in the bank semi-automatic in six months. We had clients sending crypto, converting it to dollars on the spot before it would take my, my, my business team, let’s say an hour or two with a client to open a bank account and then maybe a week of paperwork. Right. In six months, I brought that down to maybe six hours. Five hours of paperwork and opening the bank account in 45 minutes. And now they’re doing it in 15 minutes. Sure. Yeah. And when we launch a gig, it’s going to be fully automated, and it’s going to happen in 5 to 10 minutes. And my business team is going to be able to focus on what they have to focus.

Kevin Rosenquist: And now you also have a debit card here as well right. With a G. Okay. So are you paying when you say that it’s an account for both crypto and for US dollar. Is it when you’re paying if I’m swiping my card. Which one. Which one is it taking from.

Gabriel Campa: Initially it’s going to be your fiat balance. Okay. But one of the next projects that I have is connecting it to your crypto balance. So you’ll be able to decide where you want to take it from. Um, crypto is volatile.

Kevin Rosenquist: I mean, a hot take there, you know? So, you know with Bitcoin. I mean you could potentially have the situation where you might not have enough in your account because you think you have money, but you didn’t realize that in the last two days it’s gone downhill.

Gabriel Campa: That’s for an interesting product comes in uh, and something that we’re going to launch next year which is bitcoin backed loans or bitcoin backed overdraft. Right. You put your bitcoin in collateral, you’ll have access to a loan or you will have access to overdraft. Okay. So you answer that question. You don’t have to sell your crypto. I mean I don’t I have bitcoin. I’m not planning to sell my bitcoin right now. I’m just buying more and buying more. And trust me, when I launched this product, this product, I’m going to be the first one that’s going to use it. I’m going to put my bitcoin in there and I’m going to have access to liquidity. I remember one day I was in one of the chat rooms with these, uh, YouTubers that do that, do crypto mining, and I was able to get very close to them. And we were playing a game, uh, online, uh, after, after their, after their, their live streams. They would play games and I would join them sometimes. And one of them was talking that he was going to have to sell part of his bitcoin because his fridge just broke, and his wife told him he better get a new fridge the next day, right? So he had to. He was using an exchange, I don’t remember which one. And he sold his bitcoin in the US and he bought the fridge. In the case of the overdraft or the loan, you would have to do that. You get an overdraft on your crypto, you go buy the fridge and let’s say they’ll pay you. You’ll get paid in two weeks, right? Once you get paid your salary, you pay back what you took. You paid only two weeks of interest and you never sold your Bitcoin.

Kevin Rosenquist: You get to hang on.

Gabriel Campa: Get your hang on, and you don’t have the risk of losing the value because maybe, maybe that day goes up or maybe it goes down. It’s as I say, it’s very, very volatile.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Do you? I know that you. You also Either You’re gonna you’re gonna have, you know, is. So is the wallet going to basically include most cryptos? Is it going to be selective or. You know, because there’s also initial small coins out there. Yeah.

Gabriel Campa: Initially it’s going to be selective. but we have very little restrictions. Main restrictions are no anonymous tokens. Uh, no mixers. Apart from that, crypto was designed for financial liberty. Right? I’m only going to lend you money on Bitcoin, Ethereum on the main ones. If more come at in the future that are very, very stable. I’ll, I’ll, I’ll analyze it if I’ll give loans on those. But at the end of the day, I’m going to offer my clients and let them convert what they want. I mean, if they want to invest in a meme token, that’s their prerogative, right? They can decide if they want to do that. They’ll have to understand the risk. But I’ll offer them the service. There’s no reason why not to, uh, offer them the service.

Kevin Rosenquist: I’ve talked. I talked to a lot of finance people, obviously, on this show, you know, and one of the fascinating things for me about cryptocurrency is, is how, you know, forget all the I mean, the majority of people don’t even understand it. But for the people who are in the financial world, understand it or at least have a basic understanding of it, it’s so there’s so many brilliant minds who think it’s a bunch of BS, and there’s a bunch of brilliant minds who are so high on it. We’re obviously high on it, or else you wouldn’t be doing all of this. But what is it that you see that leads you to believe in this, in this currency, in cryptocurrency that maybe others are missing or or just not willing to accept?

Gabriel Campa: I believe, and you don’t really get to understand this until you really get involved. There’s a lot of misinformation out there, right? Uh, at first you would hear crypto was used for illicit activity. Yes, crypto is used for illicit activity, but not.

Kevin Rosenquist: And things like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Gabriel Campa: But not in the way they think is being done. Right. Today Fiat 17% illicit activity crypto which is way more traceable 1.5%. Mhm. Okay. And that 0.5% in the last year comes from sanctions. Given all the crisis in the world today. Sure. Okay. So it’s there’s been a growth but it’s more reflected to, to to current sanctions that have been happening. It’s faster. It’s cheaper. But let’s focus on Bitcoin. Okay. And gold Bitcoin is 12. There’s only uh all right I just forgot how many bitcoins there are. There’s a finite amount of bitcoin right? There’s only I forgot.

Kevin Rosenquist: I forgot two. Isn’t it like 20. It’s I was just I just had someone on for who was a crypto guy. 20 million. 20.

Gabriel Campa: 21 million.

Kevin Rosenquist: 3 million. Wasn’t it something like 20. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabriel Campa: It’s 20. 20 million. 21 million. Okay. But that’s all you can have. Yeah. Right. You can’t have more than that. You can’t print more bitcoins, right? Look at gold. First of all, long time ago, the dollar and the gold were separated, right? So the US economy is not backed anymore by the dollar, but by gold. But Bitcoin can be I mean, gold can be found. Right. You can find more gold. Bitcoin there’s only 20 million. 21 million. You can’t make more. It’s decentralized. No one controls it. It is one of the most secured networks at the moment. It cannot be hacked. And there’s a ledger. It’s totally public. Everything is still anonymous. And if you look at Bitcoin ETFs just happened less than a year ago. Right. And the news about ETFs maybe was maybe two years ago a year and a half ago Bitcoin went all the way to 60,000 without the big players getting involved. Mhm. Um it’s it’s been, it’s had it’s had higher returns than anything than gold than the stock market. It’s I mean what, what gives gold its value perception.

Kevin Rosenquist: Right. I mean it’s yeah. Perception. Perception. Yeah.

Gabriel Campa: There’s nothing that backs gold, right. Really? Right. Bitcoin is a better technology. It’s faster. Anybody has access to it. It’s completely decentralized. No one controls it. Yeah. It’s faster. It’s cheaper. Anybody can access it. It has a lot of trust into it. Right? Um, I think that’s a big part of Bitcoin. And that’s why you see big players getting involved. Mainly Michael Saylor right. He’s the number one uh bitcoin and personal bitcoin investor with with his company. And just this morning he was talking about Bitcoin $13 million right. No one has ever talked about gold hitting, not even hitting uh those digits right. Yeah. So you have different people saying 1 million, 2 million, 3 million. Now you have Michael Saylor talking about 13 million. It’s not a crazy idea. They can reach 13,000,000 in 30, 40 years. I mean, you can make more. It’s divided by 18, right? By eight. Sorry. By eight decimals. So you’ll be able to get fractions of Satoshis. And for the bank, it’s honestly we prefer to give you a loan in Bitcoin or Ethereum, mainly Bitcoin, then giving you a loan with your house. If I have to take your house away from you, which of course we want to avoid, it can take me a year to sell it. Bitcoin I can sell in milliseconds.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, you said it sell in no time at all. Yeah, yeah. Well, where do you land on something like Ethereum or some of the other coins? I mean, I, you know, I was saying I just had somebody who was super big on Bitcoin releasing a book on it. And you know, he’s not super into the other coins because he said a lot of them are you know, they’re not as decentralized or they’re they’re they’re they’re they’re you know I don’t know maybe maybe less open, you know. And where do you land on some of these other, other ones?

Gabriel Campa: Um, there’s very interesting projects out there. I mainly focus on the utility tokens, the ones that have a real use in the world. Sure, Ethereum is an interesting project. It’s faster than Bitcoin, right? It’s more programmable than Bitcoin. You can do smart contracts, right? Uh, you could do art and then you have a whole bunch of tokens that are under it. I believe at least 99% of all cryptos in the world, I think there’s like around 20,000 right now. They’re going to disappear sooner or later. Yeah, but you got interesting projects out there. You got projects doing renewable energy. You got a project with agriculture, tokenizing land. I mean, imagine I’m going to give you an idea. For example, imagine you own a property, uh, let’s say a parking lot. Right. And you need capital to expand the operation or maintenance or something like that. You can tokenize that parking lot, pay investors part of the proceeds of the people paying for the parking space. And you get cheap capital and you don’t have to give you zero control of the lot. And anybody can participate, right? You sell it to the blockchain, people invest, you get capital from that and everybody wins.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah yeah, yeah.

Gabriel Campa: And that’s something you could very easily do.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s that’s that’s interesting. Yeah I, I think it’s interesting because I feel like there is a lot of great use cases, but but there’s, there’s also just so many uh, it’s just like anything I suppose in investing there’s people chasing that next, you know, what’s, what’s the next big thing to pop, you know, and, and you read about stuff like, oh, this is, this is the check this out. And I’ve got some crypto. Not very much, but I’ve moved stuff around just out of curiosity, mostly to see how it works. And I mean, I think most of them just go down like most of those smaller ones. Projects don’t really do much, but yet Bitcoin seems to be the one that continues to make money.

Gabriel Campa: Is the main one, and it has something very unique that the rest don’t have. There’s only 21 million. You can’t print more. It’s completely decentralized. It’s unique. There’s nothing like it. It was built that way. Right, right, right. And it comes from the financial crisis of 2008. That’s where it all started. Mhm. Yeah. And it’s been operating for many, many years and no one’s been able to hack it. If you look at uh Coinbase when they, when, when they went public they put two risks in their papers. The first risk is that we find out who Satoshi Nakamoto is. And the second risk is he gets hacked. Mhm. Those are the only two risks that they saw at the beginning. And I think the first one is very important because. Normally the way that things happen is that normally you taint the person behind the project and that causes a crisis. Right? Right here, you can’t taint anybody because you don’t know who that person is. Mhm. So it’s that’s why no one wants to know who he is because you can’t taint him. Yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah that’s a good point. That’s a good point. So when does a guy become publicly available.

Gabriel Campa: We’re still working on some bugs. We’re going through regulatory approval, hopefully in, in a few weeks, we should get a response from the regulator. After that, we’ll launch it for current clients in the bank. I really want to test it out. Uh, something that we really work for is trust. But I want to make sure that it works very, very well, that it can handle the inflow of clients. Uh, that I think is very, very stable. And I want to make sure on the first test, I have to be all comfortable. Of putting my money there. Right. Right. Once I feel comfortable putting my money there, then definitely I will start launching it with more and more clients in the region. And we’re going to go country by country. We’re not going to do a massive launch because we can’t grow that fast, right? This has to be organic. But the first phase of the wallet is practically ready. We’re just fixing a little bit kinks in some bugs that we’re having. I never knew that I’m going to stop complaining about game developers and softwares with all the bugs, because now I’m living it.

Kevin Rosenquist: You’re not going to get mad when there’s a bug in your Xbox game.

Gabriel Campa: Exactly. I’m living it today. Every single day. Yeah, but we’re almost ready. We’re already testing it with some clients. Uh, next week, we start the second phase of testing, all with clients of the bank. And we’re still getting their feedback, right. Like, I can say that I saw something that was built somewhere else, I copied it, I made my own. Right. We’ve had to build it from the ground up, right?

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, yeah. From vision to product. Yeah. Yeah.

Gabriel Campa: So. But you’ll see it very, very soon. Uh, you’re mainly going to see it in Latam in South America. That’s our main market. Uh, we’re not going to be going into the US given that US has its own market. There’s no need for a product like ikigii in the US. Fortunately, there’s many, many solutions in the US. Um, but this is going to be a product mainly for Latam and South America.

Kevin Rosenquist: Okay. Got you. Well, Gabriel, thanks for being here. Uh, this is, uh, the product is Ikigii. It’s through TowerBank. And, uh. Yeah, I’m excited to see what happens with this. So,, yeah, I’ll definitely be, uh, definitely stay in touch and definitely keep an eye on, uh, on what you guys are doing out there.

Gabriel Campa: Oh. Thank you. I mean, this has been an amazing experience. I really like talking about this, uh, one of our goals. Uh, I want to add this if we want more people to get involved. Right? So we’re being very, very careful how we build this. We’re getting a lot of support from our regulator and for our corresponding banks, because we had to do this. Right? Right. Uh, we can’t make a mistake. We have to do it right the first time. We all saw what happened with FTX and the problems that came after that. Right. And they weren’t financial. They were more regulatory. Mhm. So we have to do this right. That’s why we’re going slow. I do ask the community to give us time to finish building this because we want to do this right for them and for us.

Kevin Rosenquist: I don’t think anybody would complain about that.

 Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: Well, Gabriel, thanks so much for being here. It was great talking to you. I appreciate your time.

Gabriel Campa: No, Kevin. Thank you.