Fixing America’s Credit Problem with Arro’s Ryan Duitch

Episode Overview

​Ryan Duitch is the co-founder and CEO of Arro, a fintech company dedicated to democratizing credit access for the approximately 160 million Americans underserved by traditional financial institutions. His journey into financial technology was inspired by firsthand observations of persistent challenges in personal finance during his tenure in financial advisory roles and as a co-founder of a last-mile sales network startup. These experiences highlighted systemic barriers in the credit industry, motivating him to establish Arro with the mission to empower individuals with limited credit opportunities to build a secure financial future.

Under Ryan’s leadership, Arro has developed a unique credit platform that shifts away from conventional FICO score-based assessments. Instead, the company employs alternative data, such as income and cash flow analysis, to approve consumers for low-interest credit cards, regardless of their credit history. The platform features a gamified app experience, allowing users to increase their credit lines and decrease interest rates by completing personal finance activities focused on responsible credit usage, savings goals, and effective budgeting. This innovative approach not only provides fair access to credit but also addresses a major root of financial hardship: lack of financial literacy.

Ryan holds a Bachelor’s degree from the University of California, Berkeley, and an MBA from the University of Southern California’s Marshall School of Business. His academic background, combined with his professional experiences, has equipped him with a deep understanding of consumer behavior and the financial sector. This expertise has been instrumental in positioning Arro as a transformative force in the fintech industry, challenging traditional lending models and promoting financial empowerment through education and innovative credit solutions. 

Episode Transcript

Ryan Duitch: Once you get into our system, we try to grow your credit line based on educational lessons. You take behaviors, payments, goals, and other things that you accomplish. And so we’ll take someone to $2,500. Some will move a little faster, some will move a little slower based on both risk signals based on how you engage in our system.

Kevin Rosenquist: Hey there and welcome to Pay Pod, where we bring you conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of payments in fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist. Thanks for listening. My guest today is Ryan Duitch, CEO of Arro, a company tackling one of the biggest challenges in personal finance building and repairing credit. Ryan and his team are on a mission to make credit accessible to everyone, especially for those who have been locked out of traditional systems. In this episode, we dive into how Arro is reshaping the credit landscape from offering accessible credit solutions to empowering users with financial literacy tools. If you’ve ever felt the weight of trying to improve your credit score or wondered how fintech can create real change, this conversation is for you. Joining me now, Ryan Duitch. So you’ve moved away from the traditional Fico scores and instead use alternative data like income to approve customers. Could you explain how Arro’s underwriting process works and how it benefits people who might normally be rejected by traditional lenders?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah, absolutely. And I think at a larger scale, there’s a lot of companies in the industry right now trying to rethink what credit scores even mean. And the introduction of cash flow data has allowed companies like myself and others to start looking at a more comprehensive view. Sometimes it’s not just about loans you’ve taken or haven’t taken and payments you’ve made against them. Sometimes it’s about potential to make other payments. There are patterns, right? There’s some new ways where if you pay your rent on time, that doesn’t count towards your credit score. There are now ways where that can. And so the ability to inject cash flow is another stage of that. And what we do is we do use some variables from your credit report. If you have it, if you don’t have it then we just use bank activity data. And there are a handful of things that we evaluate in the bank account and bank activity. Income is one. And that’s just showing a consistent flow of deposits that meet some requirements. Ours are less than most others. Some is average balance. Some is how often your bank account goes negative. There are a handful of or goes to a certain balance. So there’s a handful of different parameters that go into the underwriting model. But the idea is, is we don’t use the credit score, but we do use some pieces of the credit report if you have it right.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s not a hard credit hit. Right?

Ryan Duitch: Correct? Yeah. To get approved for Ariel. It is a soft credit pull.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s a pretty big difference from other every other card I’ve ever heard of.

Ryan Duitch: We are the only unsecured card as far as I know. That is a true proper credit card that does that. And one of the main reasons is because we start lines off a little smaller than others. We have education and these other cool capabilities that help you grow your credit line. And so the bureaus gave us an exemption as we are a one of a kind new approach to credit that’s really about empowering the conser. And so how do we keep empowering them more? Why take a hit to your credit report if you don’t need to? When we use a lot more.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. No doubt. That’s that’s that’s really cool. Yeah I think I saw like as low as a $50 limit. Right.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. The lowest limit is $50. The highest right now to start is 200. Eventually we’ll be able to start people at 500, 1000 and more. But the key is, is once you get into our system, we try to grow your credit line based on educational lessons. You take behaviors, payments, goals, and other things that you accomplish. And so we’ll take someone to $2,500. Some will move a little faster, some will move a little slower based on both risk signals. Based on how you engage in our system. You know, if you miss a payment, for example, it will take quite a bit longer than if you make all your payments on time. But the goal is, is we will take people and accelerate them quickly. We just start you off a little smaller so that we’re able to approve a wider range. And there’s other cool things that we are trying to do.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. So who’s your ideal customer. Is it is it people that are young maybe don’t have credit. Is it people just with really crappy credit? Is it people who file for bankruptcy like all of the above? Where is your ideal customer?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah, no. Great question. And our ideal customer is really someone who has a high intent to make some better financial decisions and or build their credit and or just figure out how do I kind of survive in a way that gets me some more confidence? , a lot of our paycheck to paycheck concerns,  maybe subprime, maybe no credit background. So you could be a college student who’s afraid to enter the world of credit or credit building because you don’t want to overspend. You don’t want to get in the debt trap. Your parents warned you against it. Your friends are scared of it. , start small and grow accordingly. , if you’re an immigrant with no credit at all,  just an Itin, for example. , you can absolutely get approved by Arro, and we have built our model to be able to account for, you know, the 20 to 30 year old with no credit background, the kind of person who maybe has just a couple things, or the credit challenge person who’s made a couple mistakes is trying to get back, and no one wants to give you a chance. , so we, unlike many where we say like this, are the group I’m targeting. We’ve said, let’s target everyone that is looking for more credit opportunity and let’s build a model that can cater to the individual. And that’s one of the powerful things about what we’re doing is our journey for customers is also individualized. Some people grow fast, some will grow slower. Some will have different goals, different experiences, all based on you, your data, your background, what you’re looking to do and how you engage with.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. That’s interesting. I remember that you said like, people are nervous. They’re scared to enter the credit space. Because I remember when I met my wife years ago, she didn’t have any credit. She didn’t have bad credit. She just had no credit because she was scared of it, you know, she saw people go through bankruptcy and she saw, you know, she had enough horror stories in her life that she heard that she didn’t want to do it. So that’s a great tool for people like that for sure.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. Yeah. We just did a focus group recently and one of the college students was basically like, I’m really afraid because I had friends that have maxed it out that have their own interest, that have hit their credit. My parents had one bad mistake happened to them. And, you know, she was just like. And I don’t even know what to do right now. And, you know, it’s like she’s like, I love the ability to start small, learn, you know, our educational lessons. And we built everything ourselves, all of our financial literacy, all of our surveys, we quiz, we do all this stuff. But, you know, our lessons are about life lessons. We have one that says how to avoid interest. Right? All the things that other companies don’t want you to know, because that’s where they make most of their money. Or is about how you actually learn some of the things you should establish some of the right behaviors will make less money, but it will set you up to be that much more successful. How can we win together? And that’s the approach we’ve tried to take. You know, a lot of the times don’t even call us a credit card or a lender, even though we do have that product. I say we’re really a behavioral platform. We’re really a financial management platform that’s using credit as a way to help people get access, to build credit, to do more. , but these are all kind of stepping stones into how do we set you up to be more successful in life?

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, I’ve talked with friends of mine before, and we all kind of agree that we weren’t taught very well when we were in high school. You know, I’m in my mid 40s and, you know, when I was in school, I remember taking a nap like I don’t remember what it was called. It was like basic economics, how to balance a checkbook. At that time, that actually mattered. You know, stuff like that. And but I don’t. We didn’t really learn that much. I don’t feel like we didn’t. At least we didn’t learn about the practical use cases for how credit works.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. The , but you did learn about biology and chemistry and some things you remember well today, and you and you.

Kevin Rosenquist: Was all the time.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. You know, this stuff isn’t taught and still is.

Kevin Rosenquist: Are you finding that? Still? It’s not taught.

Ryan Duitch: I mean, of all the focus groups we’ve done, the people I’ve spoken to, , this stuff is in talks. It’s not mandated. Most people don’t know it. You know, we have people that come to us. Some love the learning, some love this, but a lot come for the credit building and the credit components and the responses we get on. I love learning. I’m reinforcing things. I’ve never learned this. I’m adding my family. How do I get more? Et cetera. Et cetera. You know, like this stuff is just not taught. Now, I think I heard one person say I took a personal finance class in college, but it doesn’t go into high schools. There are some pushes in some states and some counties right now. And I think in ten years there will be a big push across the US and hopefully across the world to reinforce more educational capabilities around financial management. But right now it is not most places.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s amazing to me that it hasn’t changed in all these years since I’ve since I was in high school. It really, really kind of amazes me. If you have you ever seen that ESPN documentary called broke?

Ryan Duitch:  you.

Kevin Rosenquist: Should check it out. I think you might. It fits right into what you’re what you do, but it’s basically just like how athletes go broke and they just don’t understand. They don’t understand how finance works at all. And they have all this money and they spend it all, and then they’re then they have nothing.

Ryan Duitch: And it’s hard. You know, it’s not the most intuitive. Even people who have lots of money and are savvy will make lots of mistakes, because it really depends on how much you’re focused on it and the time frame you’re looking. You know, for a lot of the groups we’re trying to support, , you know, they might not be looking six months out, right? A lot of times you’re looking at one month, if not two weeks out. I was gonna say.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah.

Ryan Duitch: And so decision making is a little different when your time frame is a little shortened and life is hard and life sucks sometimes, and things come at you that you weren’t expecting, how do you account for that? You know, Arro doesn’t solve everyone’s problems, but we try to just chip away at some of the basics and some of the components we have. This pretty cool I financial coach is meant to be someone you can ask the questions you don’t know, who to ask or where to ask. It’s also an uncomfortable conversation sometimes if you want to talk to friends about it, right? Like not a lot of people want their friends to know or even their partners. You know, back in my early days when I was doing the discovery. It’s like, well, I actually don’t talk to anyone about this. And whenever my partner and I discuss it,  you know, it’s actually a really contentious conversation. Yeah.  you know, these are hard things. So who do you go to? A lot of the times you don’t go to anyone. It sits in your head, you cycle you this, you try to do X. We’re trying to be that partner that can say we’re someone to learn, to ask questions, to help make decisions. Let us look at your data. Let us recommend something for you based on what we see, how to save money, how to reduce expenses, etc. and people need the help. And so, you know, we’re still figuring out lots of stuff. We’re still early, but that’s at least what we’re trying to do.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s a really good point too. Like, you know, some people overshare. We know that. But most of the time, like, people don’t talk. I mean, I know I don’t talk about finance with my friends or family outside of my, my, my wife. And even. I know what you mean, too. Like, even if you’re middle class, you can still have contentious conversations about money, you know, like, whereas I suppose if you’re mega rich, you don’t care. But like most people in the world, It’s not usually a very relaxed conversation when you’re talking about money and your current financial state as a family.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah, yeah, 100%. , and these are hard conversations. And so, you know, we’re trying to put a lot of the pieces in place that say, how do we support, empower, etc., how do we help you understand the pillars of financial health and take steps in the right direction. But only someone can take those steps. , and the real vision of our company is that, over the course of time, by working with us, by going to the program, we’re helping you build credit, get access, hopefully avoid some loans and payday loans and whatever it might be,  make some good decisions. And then we’re really trying to create a complimentary credit score called the Arro score that says six, ten months in complement this. Maybe your credit score is at 606 55 something, but couple it with Arro’s data and you’re actually more creditworthy because the credit score doesn’t define someone, even though our system is really built on that. How can we help you work with a better auto lender that will save you a couple hundred bucks a month because you’re likely overpaying just based on what I know about the space, or some better insurance, or some better things that are likely overcharging you or unsure how to approve you as well. That’s how we think about our system and our business, is how do we use credit as a wedge to get into this program that’s capturing a unique set of data that shows others you are credit worthy, and you are more than just kind of your credit score. And that is really kind of the essence of what we are trying to become.

Kevin Rosenquist: So let’s talk about your education. You’ve kind of like gamified financial education in your app. Can you talk a little bit about how that works?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. So our idea of gamification is really incentivizing people with rewards for taking good actions. , you know, it’s not a game as much as it is. You can achieve X and get here by doing things that are good for you. , so for us, the way it works is we will approve people for a credit line that starts somewhere between 50 to 200. When you set a financial goal, we increase your credit line when you complete our educational lessons. These are anywhere from 3 to 7 minute lessons. We quiz, we survey, we have videos, we have static content. Right now we’re working on a handful of interactive exercises. As you complete these, we increase your credit line. You can take a handful of lessons, increase your credit line until you’ve made a payment, reached a savings goal, set a budget and other goals that we’re working on integrating throughout the process right now. And so gamification for us is incentivizing people with credit line increases. We’re working on achievements badges and we’re building a point system as well. But using the credit line especially as the hook. And we found people really value credit line increases, especially when so many others have told, you know, , you know, the impact it has to both spending power and credit building.

Kevin Rosenquist: That’s really cool. That’s really, really cool. What inspired you to take this route? How do you and how do you think game mechanics impact people’s willingness to engage with maybe what might be boring topics like credit and budgeting? If you’re just going to read articles or or ask ChatGPT like how what inspired you here?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. So going back to when I started the company, , I was really inspired by talking to people and meeting with consumers all over the country. , you know, I was studying the problems people experience with credit spending and debt. , looking at college students, immigrants, kind of paycheck to paycheck, subprime concerns. And what I found from that really just opened my eyes into how broken our system is and how antiquated the same model just continues to cycle over and over. , what you’ve done predicts what you’ll do, but that doesn’t actually mean that you don’t have the potential to do something more. And as I was interviewing all these people, I kept saying like, there’s so many good people. I would lend you my personal money, even though maybe on paper it might not seem smart. But the reason is because I was starting to unpack so many layers deeper. How did you get to where you get to? What do you think? What do you value? What would you do in this case? What would you do differently? Right. Why did you make that decision? And the deeper you go, you start to see good people have potential, but they’re just not sure what to do. My takeaway was, well, no one knows how to manage money because this stuff isn’t taught.

Ryan Duitch: What if you could actually shape part of the risk curve by helping people make better decisions? And that’s where the idea for Arro was born. And that’s where a lot of things have come together right now, which is where I ended up, which is someone needs to rethink the model itself. And that’s what we’ve tried to do. Flip it on its head. We won’t let you overspend even though we make money off of you spending and holding high balances. We won’t let you get to too high of a credit line. Instead, we want to make sure you actually know the things that make us less, but set you up to be a little better. And with that, we can align very differently. And I remember early on, a buddy was like, hey, you have another idea. That’s a lot easier. And I said, well, if not me, then who? And if not now, then when? , and it was really inspiration from hearing people’s real stories, empathizing and coming up with something that I believe sets people up to be a lot more successful and is needed. Very hard to do, but I believe it is a very needed product.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, I would say so. I would definitely say so. What is the typical customer journey look like from signing up with Arro,  to, to improve their credit score, you know. Well, I guess from signing up with Arro to improving their credit score.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. So if you follow our program, right, we try to get your utilization down. We try to help you pay off statement balances. We try to do a handful of things. You know, you can start building your credit score higher in two months time. , you know, in three months time, in one month’s time, , it starts to do something. If you have no credit background at all, it takes about 5 to 6 months. But once again, if you follow our program, which tries to recommend things to you that help optimize for credit building, , then we can help you get there. Now, the other side of it is, and this isn’t just us. If you default on a payment elsewhere, if you stop paying your auto loan, if you max out your balance just every month and never pay it down, we still will be a great partner to help you get access to money and do more. But we can’t build your credit score if you don’t take the steps to build your credit score. And that’s an important consideration. , you know, everything we’re recommending is how to keep your balances low, how to pay down your debt, how to do all the things that get there. We’re working on some other cool features that might be able to help boost your credit score, like we’re working on a feature we’ll be launching where we can report your rent payments, for example, and that can give you a boost. But over the long term, , there are mechanics that need to be understood. You need to keep your utilization to a certain point. You need to pay on time, right? If you have 1 or 2 late payments. That impacts you. , so I’d say like we are doing it with recommendations in place. But that doesn’t mean everyone follows the recommendations. Yeah, of.

Kevin Rosenquist: Course, of course. It’s what is a can lead a horse to water but can’t make him drink that kind of thing.

Ryan Duitch: Exactly. And sometimes people need to hold a balance. Right. Well. I’m stretched. I am a little overspent for the month. I needed to have my rent, and I might get my food. And I wanted to buy something for my sibling, for my kid, for my, etcetera. Like, everyone deserves that. And the nice thing with the credit card is you can hold a balance. Now, how long do you hold the balance? Do you ever pay it? Are you always behind? Right. Those are things that ideally someone can help you think through. You can help think through. , but there comes a point where you at least need to make your payments, because the moment you default, then it gets really hard to rebuild it back. And once you charge off, it stays on your credit report for many, many years. , and so the point and what I always say is it’s okay for someone to miss a payment, but to consistently miss a payment, never pay it down, right, etc.. Well, a you won’t be able to build your credit up, but those things stay on your report to stop you from maybe renting the apartment you want, buying the home you want, getting the car you need, or in the end, it just costs you a lot more. Someone will give you a car, but you’ll pay 3 to $400 more a month than you should. Well, in the end, if you just paid your credit card down, if you just. But once again, it’s hard. It’s hard when you’re managing life, making all these decisions, trying to have, you know, make the best of it, etc.. And so a company like Arro is trying to kind of support the different milestones along that process. , but, you know, we can only try to do so much.

Kevin Rosenquist: You recently partnered with Is It lovely?

Ryan Duitch: We have a handful of different partners. Devil is a credit repair company. We’ve partnered with many fintechs and marketplaces, some lenders, some nonprofits who kind of help send our message out to their members saying, here’s an here’s an amazing kind of opportunity for you to join a credit building company like Arro, and Dudley is one of a handful of partners. Okay, cool.

Kevin Rosenquist: So you guys aren’t, like, directly integrated with them. It’s just you guys just, you know, put past people, like, tell people, hey, go check this place out. It’s like, can I help you?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It’s, . Hey, you’re once again, you’re looking to repair your credit. You are doing credit counseling. You are just looking for new opportunities. We had a super successful partnership with a major investment platform where they sent us out to their members, and we had so many downloads, so many applications. People really loved it. , and that is a core strategy of ours, is leveraging partners that have bases of people with limited options or with options that they don’t trust. Right. I’ll be honest. A college student can go to a handful of places to get a credit card while they’re in college, but what’s the story for many of them? Well, I got it. I didn’t really understand how it worked. I maxed it out. I’m now in worse shape, I went overboard. I still don’t understand what I’m supposed to do.

Kevin Rosenquist: Story happened to me.

Ryan Duitch: Did. Yeah. I got a.

Kevin Rosenquist: Free t-shirt, though. Free Chicago Blackhawks t shirt and a credit card that later really screwed me over.

Ryan Duitch: And it happens to so many. I know at some point when this happens. When is this going to ensure that you actually know what you’re doing before you do it? , and that’s the problem is there’s too much money to be made in that scenario. , because there are others who will pay the maxim interest rates and crazy late fees. You know, we’re cheaper than any provider out there. Our late fees are extremely nominal. We waive them, we have grace periods. We try to give them back to you. If you go through some of our educational programs. Ours is all around empowerment, whereas others are all around. The bottom line there is of course, needs to be a fundamentally sustainable business. You know, we’re not a nonprofit, but we try to do right by people because the thesis is if you win together, you can win a lot more than winning at the expense of others. And that is at least what we stand for in our mission.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, winning at the expense of others. That was definitely. I mean, I used to have tables with credit card offers. You’d go into a lecture hall. And in the hallway outside there were tables there. And people, that’s how I got hooked on it. And I guess that’s why I don’t think that’s legal anymore. But at the time it was like, I mean, that’s shady, like way shadier than I even thought at the time.

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. No, there’s the card act and some other regulatory measures that make marketing on campus restrictive. But there are ways around it. There’s digital marketing, right? There’s a handful of things you can do. There are banks that have partnerships with schools. There are credit unions that have partnerships with schools. And there’s lots of different examples. Right. College is one thing, right? Coming out of college though, and trying to get a card sometimes, or an immigrant, for example, it’s almost impossible. You have to really start with a secured card. There’s very few options out there for you on the credit card side. , we are one of those, you know, if you come here with no background and an Itin, it’s just a little bank activity and there are more things we’re working on to make it even easier to kind of get through. But each group kind of has different problems, once again, whether it’s what do you do? The how do you get it? So there’s accessibility issues, there’s knowledge issues and then there’s pricing issues. And again, most things in life there’s always an option out there. But how much are you willing to pay for it. And does that even make sense. Yeah. You know it.

Kevin Rosenquist: Doesn’t benefit you. Yeah.

Ryan Duitch: Payday loans are a crazy world because there’s actually high satisfaction surveys. People are happy with a lot of payday loans because they give you money today. Right now, the problem that you don’t realize is you’re paying ten times more than you should for that. And there’s only so much to go around. But access, right, is access. And so how do you kind of educate on these trade offs and provide different paths? The reason we chose a credit card is because it’s something you always can get access to, because some of the revenue we make is actually from the merchant that you buy from, not directly from you. And we can build your credit alongside. So being able to always give you access to money maybe helps you avoid some loan or some mistake or some decision you have to make. But back to is it within budget? Can you even afford this? Should you be buying this? We have things in our app that we try to help with, but we keep adding more and more sophistication to the technology as well.

Kevin Rosenquist: So as you guys have grown, is there anything you’ve learned from your users that was sort of unexpected, that you’ve kind of made part of your company, of your plan?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we’ve learned a lot from our users, and we’ve been live for a little over a year now, and we spent two years kind of getting off the ground through all the regulatory, the compliance, the bank licensing with partners, etc. all of that stuff takes. I can’t even imagine.

Kevin Rosenquist: How complicated that was for you.

Ryan Duitch: There are a lot of moving pieces, and in the last couple of years, the banking and fintech world has also seen quite a shake up and so it was a journey to get live. We are lucky to have some amazing partners and got live once again a little over a year ago. , and yeah, since then we’ve learned a lot about what our customers value. Some of the educational content, you know, even our I financial coach is kind of iterating constantly. We launched that in beta earlier this year, and a lot of our customers love asking it questions, engaging with it, figuring out different components, how we grow your lines. We’ve built our models and iterated on that to figure out kind of how do we accelerate. When should we launch this goal? What are the right times to nurture X and Y? And so we’re constantly iterating on the product. And one of the things we’re working on right now. , but we’re also working on some other product lines, , and a new platform where you can actually go through our education, get kind of a feel for without being associated with the credit product. So hopefully in the next month, we’ll launch our free platform where anyone can start to get kind of some of the Arro learnings, some of the Arro experiences, kind of get some rewards for whenever you do end up getting our card or maybe another product, you get those in advance by completing some activities. , and yeah, more, more to come. But a lot of learnings have led to a lot of evolution.

Kevin Rosenquist: It’s clear you’re trying to change the conversation around credit in the year and change you’ve been around, have you have you have you already seen progress in that?

Ryan Duitch: Yeah. I mean, I mean, I’ve spoken with some of the bureaus saying, could we use some of your behavioral attributes as you grow into our score? , I’ve spoken to people in the government saying like, how do we get behind this? In some ways, I have had people at big banks talk about maybe could we take your platform and try to find a way where we can embed or leverage something like this? So I’ve seen some good kind of market and systematic opportunities that are saying, you know, keep growing, keep showing, keep. Et cetera. And once again, on the customer side, we’re seeing lots of really interesting and exciting signals. You know, there are some customers who don’t pay back. And that is a hard part of this industry, especially when you’re giving opportunity and doing right by people all the way. , you know, other companies say, well, I’ll charge all the good people as much as possible to make up for the others. We don’t do that. , but we are learning a lot. , and I think that the more customers go through this, you know, we have a lot that say, hey, I didn’t really know what to expect, but I love this.

Ryan Duitch: And that’s a really nice, you know, refreshing thing. You know, we have almost all five star reviews from real customers who say things like, this is an amazing platform educating, teaching me, giving me credit for making better decisions. , and that is really rewarding. And we hope to continue investing in how much more we can do for the Arro members and the non Arro members out there. You know, one of the big dreams is eventually the platform we’ve built, this kind of goal based, educational incentivized journey is something we can white label and license to banks, to companies. You know, maybe a corporation wants to offer this to their employees. That’s something we’re working on now. Give this tool, you know, let us brand it. We’re behind it. How do you empower people with a platform? That’s really what we stand for. And that’s where I go at the beginning, where I say a credit card is just a tool to get access to money, to build credit and to do it effectively. What we’re really investing in is the platform behind behavior change and financial health.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, that’s really cool. That’s a big problem. And,  and kudos to you and the team for doing your best to tackle it. Well, the company is Aero. That’s RRO. Ryan, thanks so much for being here. Appreciate your time.

Ryan Duitch: Appreciate it. Thanks so much.