DeFi Yield Strategy for Fintech Builders to Launch Scalable Crypto Products with Maxim Galash

Episode Overview

​​Maxim Galash is a seasoned entrepreneur and investor with over a decade of experience in the fintech and blockchain sectors. As the Chief Executive Officer of Coinchange, a pioneering platform in the decentralized finance (DeFi) market, he has been instrumental in developing innovative strategies that generate yield through meticulously crafted quantitative and systematic approaches. These diversified portfolios cater to both direct-to-business and direct-to-consumer applications, utilizing APIs for partnerships and offering separately managed accounts for institutional clients. Under his leadership, Coinchange has expanded its services to include an over-the-counter (OTC) desk, servicing institutional clients, crypto miners, and other entities in the blockchain and payment business sectors.

Before founding Coinchange, Maxim’s entrepreneurial journey encompassed a variety of roles that honed his expertise in technology and business development. He graduated from the University of Toronto with a Bachelor of Applied Science in Electrical and Computer Engineering and later completed his MBA through a power MBA program. His professional experience includes working at 3G Capital and serving as a general partner at the venture fund BGS Venture LP. Maxim also founded his own professional services agency, building applications for various clients, and ventured into the startup realm by launching several mobile applications in the social and music industries, some of which he successfully sold.

In addition to his role at Coinchange, Maxim has been actively involved in various advisory and board positions, reflecting his commitment to fostering innovation in the tech industry. He has served as a Board Member at companies such as Box C, FLYSHOT, WATTUM, and All can, and was a Partner at BGS Venture. His extensive background also includes roles as an Investor and Advisor at Hyperion Technology Inc. and as an Advisor at Beam Propulsion Lab Inc. Maxim’s diverse experience underscores his dedication to advancing the fields of fintech and blockchain through strategic leadership and innovative solutions.

Episode Transcript

Maxim Galash: You open up a wallet at coin Change, you can accept a stablecoin there, and you can change that stablecoin into peso and take it to your bank. That’s the business. And then if you want to send it to China, you send stablecoin to another wallet in China, and they are going to trade it to their own currency where they just convert their own currency. So that’s kind of a cross-border stablecoin. Take a wallet, initiate a transaction.

Kevin Rosenquist: Hey there. Welcome to PayPod, where we bring you conversations with the trailblazers shaping the future of payments and fintech. My name is Kevin Rosenquist, and thanks for listening. Crypto investing has evolved far beyond the days of simply buying and holding. Today, savvy investors are looking for ways to put their digital assets to work, earning passive income through DeFi yield strategies. But with the collapse of platforms like Celsius and BlockFi, trust in crypto lending and yield generation has been shaken. So how do you separate sustainable opportunities from high risk pitfalls? My guest today is Max Gallasch, CEO of Coin Change, a company that’s helping businesses in emerging markets generate yield on their digital assets. In this episode, we dive into how DeFi yield strategies have evolved, why coin change pivoted from retail to B2B, and how automation and risk management are reshaping the way institutions and investors engage with crypto. We also explore the latest trends in decentralized finance, the impact of regulation, and where the industry is headed next. So joining me now from Toronto, Max Gallasch, has the focus of crypto investors shifted from just holding assets to putting them to work?

Maxim Galash: I would say it’s always was a dilemma for a lot of investors rather than, uh, just trading and holding, making the assets work, generating some passive income. There’s various ways in crypto how to do that. But the shift is happening and it’s always been I think the one of the first waves of that shift was the Celsius days. You know, if you remember that platform that went bankrupt, right? So they did pretty much invent, not invent, but they popularized the yield. There was about. Blockfi. Celsius. Nexo. And there’s many, many ways to do that. There’s some players, like coin change led in Nexo. They’re still around, but there are many players that didn’t do it in the proper risk management way. Right. Kind of a shadow banking approach to the crypto that wasn’t successful. So that trauma took a while to actually, you know, it’s still fresh in some brains, but for the most part, the market kind of forgot about it right now. And by this time, people are reengaging with the yield platforms on CFI and DeFi ecosystems. So there’s a bit of liquidity and hype, but less definitely than it was two years back in the summer of 2022.

Kevin Rosenquist: So you think that shift that that kind of, you know, because I feel like it was viewed as risky and complicated and, you know, you think that people had to forget about some of the, like you said, trauma in order to kind of like feel comfortable doing it again. Or do you think there has been other changes that have made people feeling a little more safe in yeah, so.

Maxim Galash: Ptsd is still relevant to the C5.

Kevin Rosenquist: Platform.

Maxim Galash: Right? I mean, you’ve heard about By bit hack, right? Just happened a couple of days back. $1.45 billion been stolen by North Korea.

Kevin Rosenquist: I don’t think I heard about that one. I don’t know how.

Maxim Galash: I missed the news right now. For the last two days, Bybit got hacked. So Ethereum changed that compromise when they were withdrawing the assets from the cold wallet. Something happened on the UI and it showed the proper address. But in reality, the smart contract has been compromised. And, uh, $1.5 billion. So $15,000 million was stolen. And North Korea has one of the largest right now Ethereum reserves in the world. So the trust is there. But there’s a lot of security concerns right, on the centralized platforms as well as the decentralized ones, because decentralized is pretty much it’s just a code base. Any code base can be compromised, right? If you if you think about it for long enough. So you got to hold your own crypto, hold your own keys, but you interface with a code rather than interfacing with a centralized counterparty like Bybit or Binance. Right. So there’s always pros and cons, and people always evaluate either or what they feel comfortable with. Right. To give exposure to a risk if they want to yield on their assets because there is no free lunch. Right. So there’s always a risk even if you invest in a I mean, specifically if you invest in the stock market and in the microcap market, right. And there’s a lot of manipulation on either side. So you can try to yield to the stock market or real estate market. You know, we know how to sell an eight ended up right as well. So there’s risk in any asset class investment asset class. It’s just what do you feel comfortable with.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah you’re right. It’s it’s all about what your comfort level. I mean whether you’re whether you’re investing in, you know, in this, you know, with a financial advisor in the stock market. I mean, you know, you ask you what you’re what you’re comfortable risk level is, you know, that’s always what.

Maxim Galash: An investment advisor in his on your assets. Right.

Kevin Rosenquist: Tell me tell me a little bit about coin change and how how it works. How how does your platform make it easy for users to to earn that passive income and minimize risks at the same time.

Maxim Galash: Yeah. So coin change I mean you can see us as so our product is not available in the US. I’ll make a note right to the US residents or businesses. It’s not available in Canada or UK either. So we’re primarily target B2B platforms. So accredited B2B platforms that work in the emerging markets where they have no easy access to USD investment product. So the T-bills are hard to access. You know, the high interest accounts are higher access, more money funds, uh, money market funds are harder to access. So in emerging markets, the currency devalue is fast enough for them to be able to store their assets in USD. That’s why they all want USD, right? Because they pass us, you know, rupee, whatever you name it, it’s always every day it loses value for the most part. Uh, while US dollar is strengthening value for different factors. Right. So they want to store their value in USD. So but it’s hard to access an actual USD through a banking system in emerging markets. So they buy stablecoin. When they buy a stablecoin it can be Usdc or USDt. T right on that stablecoin either seats as a store of value for them, or they’ll try to earn a dividend on that. So when they earn a earn a dividend, they’ll go to a platform locally that will have a license to offer some kind of a product. And we’ll go to that platform. We go to the platform itself and tell them, you guys can use our products as a distributor.

Maxim Galash: We’ll manage all the assets, we’ll generate the yield, we’ll give you the full transparency, and you’re going to offer it to your end clients. So we don’t really go to the retail people in those markets, because there is enough of the penetration already by many, many different fintechs and startups like Nubank, lemon, you know, Revolut, you know, you name it. There are big ones and there are mid-market and smaller ones. So we’ll go to small and mid market players. And pretty much rather than creating your own investment products, building your own trading team as a management team will come in. We’ll be your team, right. We’ll give you the infrastructure. We’ll give you the APIs, we’ll give you the products you can choose and pick. Right. What are you going to sell to your own customers? And we’ll do it for free and we’ll generate the revenue and share that with them. So that’s that’s our business. Okay. So we don’t really touch the end client. We have an app. Yeah. We historically had about 300,000 clients at the heydays of Celsius and the like. Right. But since then we repositioned the business towards B2B and we lost majority of the retail clients. There are still some maybe five, 10,000 that are using the app, but primarily the assets and the business comes from B2B relationships.

Kevin Rosenquist: Was there a reason that you that you kind of went away from the straight to the customer that you focused on the B2B?

Maxim Galash: Yeah, just too expensive. The business model is not working right. The CPU like cost per acquisition of the CPA is so high the LTV is pretty low, the churn is high especially, I mean, after Celsius. Everybody just withdrawing.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, yeah, I was going to say so.

Maxim Galash: Nobody wanted to keep any assets on any centralized platform, right. Nobody trusted anyone. Right. Because there was like one bankruptcy after another. And big, big guys like BlockFi who legitimate was full licensing, you know, going bust. Right. So what what people will think about coin change that’s hasn’t been funded by hundreds of millions of dollars, right? It’s not real people just withdrawing funds. So we had a lot of business clients as well at that point, and then we repositioned the business towards more of the infrastructure player. We have other businesses right now under the umbrella, but like credit card off ramp. So it’s a gift card. Sorry, not credit card, gift card off ramp. Also white label. So if you are again a B2B fintech in emerging market and you want to sell gift cards to your clients, we can give you that API so you can white label our product and you can sell Amazon, Uber, visa, Walmart gift cards to your end clients for crypto. And we’ll generate those gift cards globally. And we have a compliance layer around it. So you don’t have to do anything. You’ll just make money with us. We’ll give you a revenue share while you distribute the cards to your clients. So that’s we kind of pivoted to that B2B business and we started adding more products than just investment structured products.

Kevin Rosenquist: I think I saw on your website you use automation to, to generate returns. Is that correct? Yeah.

Maxim Galash: There’s you think about us as again, it’s probably like an investment manager. Right. So there’s different ways to do that. We have a hedge fund. We own a hedge fund called Block Capital. Block capital is a fully licensed, audited registered private fund out of Gibraltar. So you and subscribe for that fund. You pretty much have to put in $250,000 minimum. You have to be an accredited investor. You you can redeem only once a month your funds on every first of the month. It’s like a proper private fund, a hedge fund. So we run a multi-manager fund. So we have about ten managers managing the assets for us under that umbrella. Right. And the assets are all under our custody. So coin change will deploy some of it as assets to the hedge fund. Right. We will deploy some of the assets into staking like P2P, you know, like direct staking providers to validate the blockchains, like the nodes. Right. We will also invest some of our assets into the protocols to provide liquidity to like Uniswap, Aave, GM, you know, protocols that need liquidity and pay your rewards for your liquidity. Right. And then we combine it into a product that we offer in our app and API. Right. So you don’t have to think about the distribution the risk management. Right? Right. The reward calculation, the profit loss calculation will give you that exposure through a single structured product. You only see Bitcoin earn product as an example or Ethereum or a Dogecoin earn product right. But behind that there is three major. So staking hedge fund and uh, DeFi liquidity. Three major strategies that we combine and have different proportion allocations to those strategies.

Kevin Rosenquist: But that’s all behind the scenes. No one no one really even knows.

Maxim Galash: You just see an account like a earn account, right? But we do publish asset allocation reports once a month on our blog. So the partners and the retail clients can go and read it if they want to see where the assets are allocated. Right. So there’s but it’s not. Uh self-custody. So you trust us to manage those assets for you and to generate you the return, and the return can be negative, right? We don’t promise an infinite machine, right? That it’s always going to be plus 10% a year as we’re paying now. One day it can be negative. You can see -2% annualized, right. It’s all annualized return. We don’t show you a daily return or month. Right?

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah yeah, yeah. Of course.

Maxim Galash: For the last 14 days. So you can see a negative return in a certain day when the market. I mean, maybe it’s taking maybe the market wasn’t so good, right? Maybe liquidity. I mean, we didn’t get paid the rewards, right? So we we do change PNL daily, and there is no promise of always generating 10% a year. That was the biggest problem, I think, of that market because they positioned themselves as a bank, like let’s say Celsius. They said, on bank yourself, we’re going to be your bank. So it was really a shadow banking and interest account when they deployed assets in different ventures lending, mining. But they guaranteed the return. Right. So when market went down their loans were not repaid. Their investments were When negative, they couldn’t just change it and say sorry. I mean, right now your plus 10% is -80. So and they didn’t have custody of their assets. We always have custody of our assets. So the lesson learned right. You always have custody. You don’t lend out the asset. You always have custody and trade through protocol or staking. But you control the asset. We control the asset and you don’t really. And you have to be able to show a negative return to your client and explain the client that it’s not an infinite machine. Right? Right. There can be a negative day like in any other investment product. So that’s pretty much what we do and how we distribute the product.

Kevin Rosenquist: How difficult is it to keep up with, you know, the regulation side of things? You know, especially you know, I think about the in this country, we went from kind of a, if you will, an anti crypto administration. Now to a pro crypto administration. A lot of questions as to how things are going to move forward is regulation is keeping up with regulation. Is ensuring compliance difficult in this industry.

Maxim Galash: Yeah it’s difficult.

Kevin Rosenquist: How do you prepare for the future without knowing where things are going to go.

Maxim Galash: So for us, I mean, after FTX and Celsius, we just didn’t service US market and Canadian market and UK market, right? So when we did the shift towards emerging markets where the regulation is lax or it’s absent, right. So you get a legal opinion from a country or a region like European Union, and you explain the product to your counsel and they’ll tell you they’ll draft a legal opinion if you can offer a product or not. And in what way? Right. And then kind of leaning towards that legal opinion, you can go and offer it per jurisdiction. So that’s one way. Just cancel the high. Cancel the high regulatory environments. Don’t offer a product. Go through. I mean, even though we went through the SEC audit last two years and because the environment was really bad. So they went to everyone who offered anything at any point of time, right in the market. So we were also questioned and it was voluntarily disclosure that we’ve done. But and it was done successfully. So we haven’t really broken any laws but everybody were question. So the SEC back then they, they just no matter what you did and where you operated. And if you’re on the news, you know what people people use it to some extent. They’ll come knocking and asking questions, right? It was like regulation by enforcement, right? And the big boys, they just decided to enforce right away.

Maxim Galash: I mean, just to get in the door because the documents and opened up kind of the black box. So right now it’s very different, right? Right now, I mean, I don’t think any player who’s on the market today wants to play bad with the US. You know, everybody who wants to come back or work in the US or works now they for the majority of that, I mean they’re all afraid of the regulator no matter who’s in power, no matter who’s really leading and what’s the approach. They all want to clear rules, right. If you can classify the assets is it is it commodity. Is it security? Is it a currency. Just give a clear guidelines and will be a broker. Right. We’ll get an empty license okay. We’re going to get a security license. We’re going to get a gas whatever like registration to offer a certain class of assets. Or we can offer Trump coin. No problem. You guys consider it to be a security or whatever. No problem. Right. So if there is a clear guidance. What kind of token is what commodity security or currency? Or maybe its own right? Then just give a guideline and I’m sure that everybody’s going to register for it. So people are just like not to risk it. You’ll just wait on the sideline before the guy.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. You’re just waiting to see how it all falls.

Maxim Galash: Yeah, the big ones, they just offer it and then they’ll I think with the court judgments, I mean, as soon as the there’s a precedent, it’s going to be settled by the bigger, bigger guys like Gemini, Coinbase. Right. They can go through the full process with tons of lawyers and stuff. Right. And then the smaller guys will have a clear rules and more innovation will come. Hopefully there’s probably not going to be a regulatory capture. I hope in terms of that, only the big guys can comply. Let’s say in Canada that’s the case in Canada, they tightened the regulation through central bank and the local SEC that only big guys can comply to get a license. So no small broker can just economically cannot hire five lawyers and seven compliance people, right. And 25 vendors to really comply with that regulation. It’s good that they’re clear. They’re clear what to do. But small guys have been wiped out or they exited the market, or they went to a very simple OTC type business. When you don’t have to offer any product, but just do a non-custodial trade for a client and have clarity. But with the clarity came a lot of struggle for small business kind of regulatory capture. And the bigger guys were happy because they were working together with the regulator to impose those kind of clear rules right at the same time, but they only benefit the bigger guys. So hopefully in the US it’s going to be a little bit more relaxed, so small guys can compete with the bigger ones. And it’s not like for the matter of providing probably, you know, a better service, but at least to make big guys understand that there’s a competition coming. So they all. Yeah.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah, well that’s what competition is supposed to to is supposed to drive our market. So that that makes sense to me. Do you think you’ll do you think you’ll go back into the US when things are clear.

Maxim Galash: Yeah. Yeah. I mean we’re in Europe right now. We’re going through Mika. Mika is really complex, uh, licensing regime in Europe that they will passport all across Europe. So if you’re going to get it in one of the states that participate, you can get it across France, Germany, you know, Spain, so you can pass for it. So we have an office in Poland. We have employees there, lawyers there, compliance there. Like everything, pretty much people are working and we’re going through micro right now. So they’re probably going to start accepting first applications in a couple of months next month. So it’s it’s pretty complex right. So you have like security protocols. You have mail procedures. You have regulatory procedures in terms of the agreements that you signed with your clients. You know, you have reserve requirements to keep some with the with the with the regulator. So there’s like serious but pretty understandable rules right now to follow. And again, I mean smaller guys just can’t like we’re looking to we’re talking to a few smaller players and they’re like ah, we just probably just can you buy us maybe just we just don’t want to deal with that, you know? Right.

Maxim Galash: So that’s what happens as well. Like Europe is also pretty pretty stringent on the regulation. And they’re pretty uh like there’s is information. Let’s say I think it’s called DARPA Dharma. There’s like a regulatory data regime to follow. And it’s also like a lot of scrutiny, just like extra layers of unnecessary complexity around hosting, information exchange, privacy. You know, they make it very complex for a guy like Five guys business five team, five people, team business to survive. So I think hopefully us is not going to go that route as Europe guy goes through. Right. Because you need to create those like small sandboxes, you know, a little bit of a lax regulation until you really clamp down. So Europe did impose Mika, but they had vast for a while. So we had Vasp in Europe. So there was virtual asset service provider regulation and there was really lax. So it allowed players to do a lot with very little regulatory and compliance requirements. So right now they’re kind of making it way more complex. And a lot of those vasps I think there’s like thousands of vasps, I think maybe in across Europe they’re going to probably be 150.

Kevin Rosenquist: Mhm. I feel like for a long time, DeFi was kind of considered the Wild West. You know, um, it.

Maxim Galash: Still.

Kevin Rosenquist: Is. Do you think it still is? I was going to I was going to ask, is it is it because you see more traditional financial institutions exploring it? So is it is it getting a little more mainstream where it doesn’t where where it doesn’t feel like the Wild West?

Maxim Galash: I mean, they all explore it just in paper, you know, it all looks good on the news, on the press release, in reality. First of all, DeFi has very little retail participation right now.

Kevin Rosenquist: Mhm.

Maxim Galash: So before back in the day like two years back again type of kind of Celsius days DeFi summer. Then the DeFi was pretty active. Terra was paying 20%. You know, for everyone who wants to stake their Usdc, Usdc, right. There was a lot of kind of free lunch for rewards people that understand what they’re doing. Founders, I mean, people founders understand what they’re doing on the practical side. But right now, I would say the retail participation is very low. Everybody is trading bitcoins on Solana. That’s that’s the retail plus like institutional does that as well. Professionally there are some big players that are trading that. But like people want to make quick buck. They’ll go try to buy me next meme coin Pawn on d5. I would say the only institutional participation is, uh, tokenized T-bills. So, like on m squared, like there’s a bunch of players that do tokenized T-bills. As an example, one of them has been just acquired by Celsius or by circle. Sorry. Bad example. Circle. Circle is the issuer of used to see fully regulated 1000 people very compliant. One of the first big compliant in Europe based in the US New York. So they acquired a company called Hashnode.

Maxim Galash: Hashnode was the largest t-bill operator on chain like they were the largest t-bill tokenized fund chain. And but it’s a very simple process. You just you have to align for 4 or 5 counterparties, right. Custody, trading, pricing, market making and, uh, have a distribution. The most important part is distribution. Who’s going to buy that t-bill from you on chain. Who’s going to buy that token. Like usually t-bill or chain is just a token. And then they’ll take your funds and they’ll buy t-bill. Right. But then there is a bunch of regulated counterparties in between. And the beauty of that is that, it settled on chain 24 over seven, accessible globally. Right. But it’s a very simple business. There’s no innovation. Like very minimal innovation just to take a t-bill and chain. And at the same time there are like billion, trillion like whatever, tens of billions of dollars traded of T-bills globally. Right. So it’s all still small, small fraction of the market of the tokenized T-bills. Right. So the innovation is very easy, right. And the market is very, very small. So I mean I can’t say it’s like a global adoption. You know, it’s still far, far off from that.

Kevin Rosenquist: Do you do you think that will come at some point a global adoption.

Maxim Galash: Nobody knows. I we kind of understood that stablecoins would be the big, big use case.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. That makes sense.

Maxim Galash: That makes money. That helps people. And we’ve been working on the stablecoin yield for the last four years. Right. It’s kind of our blue chip product. Right. So it’s a stablecoin yield product that’s coming right now. Everybody’s talking about the stablecoins last six months after the Brex after the bridge Acquisition by stripe for $1 billion. Everybody’s talking about stablecoins, but it’s also a pretty simple business. I mean, stablecoins are also okay. You you open up a wallet at coin change. You can accept a stablecoin there, and you can change that stablecoin into peso and take it to your bank. That’s the business. And then if you want to send it to China, you send stablecoin to another wallet in China, and they are going to trade it to their own currency.

Kevin Rosenquist: They just convert their own currency.

Maxim Galash: So that’s kind of a cross-border stablecoin. Take a wallet, initiate a transaction. Yeah. There is complexity of the gas fee. Coin change does that for you. There’s a complexity of opening up a wallet and storing your keys. We use fireblocks NPCs. So we create your wallet in Fireblocks for you, and you use a password interface to log in. Right? But at the end of the day, it’s a very simple use case. It’s just like, oh, wow, right. In emerging markets they use stablecoins. Yeah. Yeah. Right. What else can they use Nigerian doctor or whatever. Right. And then it’s opening up a wallet. Pretty much not in a self-custody way, but through MetaMask, but through a centralized platform that manages your gas fees and your wallets for you. That’s all innovation is about. Plus, I mean, right now they started okay, we can issue a token for you. Like you can like issue another stablecoin right now is also a big business, not big business, but like upcoming business. So there is a bunch of players like, uh, I think Braille, there’s a few names that are working on giving you a compliant platform to issue your own stablecoin. So you can use your own stablecoin, right, at PayPal, PayPal stablecoin. Right. What you’re going to do with that? I don’t know, but I mean, if you have that can.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah.

Maxim Galash: You can, you can you can go to that platform, I don’t know, pay them a rough share. I don’t know how they operate. But in two days you can have your own stablecoin. Right. So issuing a stablecoin is not really rocket science. There are players who can do it for you through their platform. Right. But then the question is the major question always is a distribution. Do you have the clients? Do you have the use case? Do you actually have a product market fit for that stablecoin or for that product? Right. That’s kind of usually the the major deciding factor.

Kevin Rosenquist: What are there any new opportunities you see sort of shaping defies immediate future in the next. Like, I don’t know, 2 to 5 years.

Maxim Galash: Uh, everybody’s looking at Tom blockchain right now. So telegram blockchain, they’re still pretty small, but they have a big. Telegram. Telegram messenger is pretty big, right?

Kevin Rosenquist: Huge.

Maxim Galash: Yeah. And yeah, everybody’s using it right now. It’s, uh, also pretty, uh, well positioned because they’re kind of not in the US, not in Russia, not in China. You know, they’re kind of agnostic and they’re secure. So like signal type of I guess security.

Kevin Rosenquist: Right.

Maxim Galash: Yeah. So yeah. So they’re well positioned to grow more. They I think they have a billion users right now or close to a billion users. And they did their own wallet. So Telegram Messenger will have its own wallet. And then the wallet there is right now free. They partnered with tether. It’s a USDt. It’s a stablecoin. Yeah. So free purchase of tether. So you can use your credit card or your balance at your telegram wallet to buy with no fee tether. Right. And then you can send it to another user or to another wallet for free as well. So they’re going into payments and they’re going through their own wallet. That’s a part of the messenger. Plus they have a mini app store and they have a blockchain store. So the blockchain is still pretty nascent. There’s a lot of kind of mini apps, mini games, casual games. But that’s exactly how Apple Store started as well. So if you know about the story of the mobile stores, they also started with a lot of gaming. Casual gaming.

Kevin Rosenquist: Absolutely.

Maxim Galash: Yeah, that’s how they. And then there was utility apps came in right after utility apps. More complex apps came in. So the evolution of the applications on the store was kind of very similar to what’s happening to the telegram app store right now. Interesting games and meme coins. So a lot of people are thinking that in three, five years they’re going to be a big ecosystem. So that’s what they’re watching. And then there’s also obviously Ethereum innovation like the latest one probably the latest. Last year it was restating eigen layer type protocols where you can stake Ethereum but they’ll restake it. And let’s say, I don’t know, Cardano. And then they’ll validate their chain. Right. So Ethereum is the largest asset after bitcoin right. So people have but they have very little. I don’t know Doge or whatever other state proof of stake token exists. So they will change Ethereum to that token and stake it on that chain to validate the other chain. So that was the innovation because was staking. You started with just taking my Ethereum and there was a minimum of 32. I think that you have to stake to be able to participate in a node. Then they said, okay, liquid staking, you’ll give me your Ethereum one, not 32 one half or 0.1. I’ll manage it for you because I have other clients who are putting in that kind of economy of scale. And then I’ll give you a token so you can use that token to go borrow something and have that was liquid staking. And right now they did staking. It’s all kind of a part of it. But yeah I think very similar again to financial services because financial services are also construct and structure different products. Right. So that’s what happened to the evolution of Ethereum as well. And nobody knows what’s next. What’s going to be next, I don’t know. You should look at what A16z is. Funding. Probably. That’s probably the next thing that’s coming.

Kevin Rosenquist: The next big thing? Yeah.

Maxim Galash: Usually it’s that simple. Just follow a big. Follow the money.

Kevin Rosenquist: Follow the money. Yeah. Final question. What what, uh, what, uh, new meme coin will make me rich.

Maxim Galash: What’s the new meme coin? Rich.

Kevin Rosenquist: Yeah. What’s going to make me rich?

Maxim Galash: Libra. But you were too late.

Kevin Rosenquist: I said not the next one, Max. Come on. The next one.

Maxim Galash: I don’t know, I think it’s going to be PayPal.

Kevin Rosenquist: Paypal, PayPal, PayPal, meme coin. All right, you heard it here first, folks. All right. Well, Max, thanks so much for being here. The company is coin change. Thank you so much for your time.

Maxim Galash: Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.